Hello All,

I'm on a committee to study worship for our church, and wondered if anyone could provide biblical insight on the following situation:

We have a woman leading the "worship team" (pianist, flute, recorder, french horn). Her duties include choosing arrangements, organizing the schedule of players, and providing leadership to the musicians, one (at least) of which is a young man.

Also, we have a woman choosing the psalms and hymns.

My question is this. What, scripturally, ought to be the role of women in this situation? Should the pastor be choosing the hymns? Should the woman be directing and leading this team of musicians?

The only biblical example I can even find of such a situation would be that of "the sons of Levi", and so I wonder if this would be an appropriate role for women at all.

Also, on our worship committee, the pastor told us to make sure our wives were "involved" in the meeting, even though the committee legally consists of an elder, a deacon, and myself. Is this biblical? My thought is that only the men ought to be involved in providing leadership to the congregation, but he seems to be indicating that the wives of these men ought to be (albeit unofficially) involved in this leadership.

Thoughts?

__________________
Adam Brink, Livermore Wine Country, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born?
Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby.
~Chico Marx in Duck Soup

I am under the impression that women are merely prohibited from exercising the authority delegated to church officers.

__________________
DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Does the worship team report directly to the worship committee?

__________________

Does she have any sort of teaching authority or official leadership capacity in the church, or does she just play music?

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

It sounds like she's just dealing with getting the music together, not teaching or exercising the other authority of church office (discipline, administration of sacraments, etc).

__________________
DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

yep, the church is safe from a feminist takeover I think.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

__________________
DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Elders should determine what is said and done in worship (under the overall guidance of Scripture, remembering the RPW). This includes what songs/psalms are sung. Women should not lead in the public worship of God.

__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

Let me share from my own experience, because I am the music director in my church. Being a woman who believes in male leadership in the church, I have struggled with this a lot over the years. I knew from the time I was a teenager that God was calling me to be a church musician of some sort, and everywhere I have been since then, God has placed me a position where I am involved in some music leadership role in the church, many times without seeking it.

One thing that is absolutely clear in my mind is that a woman involved in this role must be under the direct authority of the pastor and elders. In many of the churches where I have served, I have not been allowed to choose any music other than the incidental music used in worship. In other churches, I have worked side by side with the pastor. He chose some of the music, I chose some of the music. Where I am currently serving, I choose all the music, but I always send the music to the pastor before any final decisions are made.

I take this responsibility very seriously, and I don't think that just being a good musician qualifies a woman (or even a man) for the role of music director. In addition to being a trained church musician, I am well-trained in the Scriptures, my pastor and elders know my doctrinal position and know that I am serious about making sure that everything that we sing in church is theologically and musically sound. The day I stopped being careful about what we sing would be the day they would ask me to step down.

In short, I don't believe that it is wrong for a woman to be a music leader in the church, but it is rare to find one who is called to that mininstry. I believe leadership should be open to women in that role and be willing to work with them. In many places I have been, I have been made to feel that I was out of place or trying to ursurp authority in spite of the fact that all I wanted to do was use the gifts God gave me under property leadership. I am very thankful for the church leadership I have now. They work with me, and I find it very easy to submit to their leadership.

__________________
J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

If the piano player then is a woman, can she not lead the song in non-ep churches? This was not "leading" last time I checked, but was singing.

I am sure that the elders could give hymns to her to play. She is there in a servant role is she not? If the Trinity Hymnal or a sound source was used, then free selection within these confines would not introduce heresy (i.e. she picks from the hymnal and thus is kept within boundaries). If the pastor requests a hymn, is she going to committ a takeover and force Fanny Crosby on the people? It sounds like she is in a serving role and this doesn't seem a big deal.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Wouldn't the piano player just be aiding the worship not leading? An elder is the one who should be leading worship (i.e. leading the congregation).

__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

Why can't the elders pick out the music, and make the arrangements? She could then be responsible to the elders for playing the music and helping to organize the other musicians. Or you could just get rid of the whole music team.

__________________
Matthew
Free Grace
BC, CA

"The most important thing in communication is to hear what isn't being said. "
-Peter Drucker

That would not be a bad idea.

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

I recall Rev. Patrick Edouard {URC} preaching that the Reformed Confessions did a good job of keeping heresy out of the front door, but today we so easily let heresy in the back door of church through the music.

The elders are responsible for supervising the flock in worship. If they want to consult some gifted musicians, fine, but the musicians should not be choosing the music that is sung. The pianist could choose the unsung offeratory, prelude, and postlude, but even there, the elders should be listening carefull to what song is being played. For example, if the pianist starts plunking out the tune of "In the Garden", an elder should gently counsel her after about the song selection.

As for worship teams, I always thought they were called elders.

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Mark Van Der Molen
Immanuel URC
DeMotte, Indiana

My wife used to play piano for a PCA church that we were attending, and this is how it was done. She selected the music that was not sung, atmosphere/preparation music, everything else was selected by the TE.

__________________
Matthew
Free Grace
BC, CA

"The most important thing in communication is to hear what isn't being said. "
-Peter Drucker

If all songs are sung out of the Trinity hymnal I don't see it as lax if an elder does not micromanage the song leader over EVERY song.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

The Reformed Confessions did a good job with keeping heresy out of the back door through music, too. See The Directory for the Public Worship of God - Of Singing of Psalms.

Of Singing of Psalms.

IT is the duty of Christians to praise God publickly, by singing of psalms together in the congregation, and also privately in the family.

In singing of psalms, the voice is to be tunably and gravely ordered; but the chief care must be to sing with understanding, and with grace in the heart, making melody unto the Lord.

That the whole congregation may join herein, every one that can read is to have a psalm book; and all others, not disabled by age or otherwise, are to be exhorted to learn to read. But for the present, where many in the congregation cannot read, it is convenient that the minister, or some other fit person appointed by him and the other ruling officers, do read the psalm, line by line, before the singing thereof.

In fact, this model guarantees no heresy be offered up in the guise of worship to God.

__________________
Chris Mangum
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte
student, GPTS
.357 Mangum

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

The TE should be organizing the Worship so that the psalms/hymns point to and develop a coherent message that builds up to and is concurrent with the Sermon.

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell