EP Jargon?

[Scott Bushey]

Steve,
Thanks for your insight. I attempted to make this point in my FB post w/ Kevin by quoting Calvin:

"A further distinction that must be made is the distinction between immediate and mediate general revelation. Immediate general revelation occurs without an intermediating agency. Mediate general revelation occurs through an intermediating agency. John Calvin described immediate general revelation in hisInstitutes of the Christian Religion:

There is within the human mind, and indeed by natural instinct, an awareness of divinity [divinitatis sensum]. This we take to be beyond controversy. To prevent anyone from taking refuge in the pretense of ignorance, God himself has implanted in all men a certain understanding of his divine majesty (I.3.1).
In other words, God has revealed himself by directly implanting knowledge about Himself in all men. In a later chapter, Calvin described the mediate general revelation that God accomplishes through His created works:
The final goal of the blessed life, moreover, rests in the knowledge of God [cf.John 17:3]. Lest anyone, then, be excluded from access to happiness, he not only sowed in men’s minds that seed of religion of which we have spoken, but revealed himself and daily discloses himself in the whole workmanship of the universe. As a consequence, men cannot open their eyes without being compelled to see him (Institutes, I.5.1)."

Yes the above is not directly related to the subject at hand but it does assist us in coming to a respectable conclusion in the way that the terms are being used here.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

it's Rev. Carroll and not Mr. Second,

It needs at 'The' before Reverend, and probably should use the full name. "The Reverend Mr. Carroll" would probably also be appropriate.

Yes; and sorry to be a pedant, but the proper abbreviation for the Reverend is "the Revd", not "Rev." as the latter is too similar to the abbreviation for revised.

 

[SolaScriptura]

it's Rev. Carroll and not Mr. Second,

It needs at 'The' before Reverend, and probably should use the full name. "The Reverend Mr. Carroll" would probably also be appropriate.

Yes; and sorry to be a pedant, but the proper abbreviation for the Reverend is "the Revd", not "Rev." as the latter is too similar to the abbreviation for revised.

According to Wikipedia, Rev, Revd and Rev'd are all acceptable. However, when I checked a site about how to "address the church of england clergy" they uniformly used Revd. So your pedantism is not without contextual basis.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

it's Rev. Carroll and not Mr. Second,

It needs at 'The' before Reverend, and probably should use the full name. "The Reverend Mr. Carroll" would probably also be appropriate.

Yes; and sorry to be a pedant, but the proper abbreviation for the Reverend is "the Revd", not "Rev." as the latter is too similar to the abbreviation for revised.

According to Wikipedia, Rev, Revd and Rev'd are all acceptable. However, when I checked a site about how to "address the church of england clergy" they uniformly used Revd. So your pedantism is not without contextual basis.

Ben, don't you know that if you were an undergraduate, you would be failed for citing Wikipedia.

 

[irresistible_grace]

Speaking of "jargon," I do not "insist on being all proper." I was trying to be polite. My apologies. I was simply using "Mr" as an honorific NOT as a title.

 

[kevin.carroll]

Understood.Are you sure?

Yes. It seems a huge leap to make such an inference (from silence) from a document that is marked by its exacting precision. It seems to me that if the Divines wanted to say the KJV was inspired (for instance), they would have said so explicitly. But they don't. They say that the originals were inspired and since then God has preserved his Word.

 

[kevin.carroll]

Hello Kevin,

I had not heard the terms—as used in this thread—mediate and immediate till I came here on PB some years ago. Then while I was reading in Joel Beeke's, A Puritan Theology, I came across the terms used the same way with regard to prophecy in the Puritan era (quote from this post):

Mediate prophecy is not the revelation of new truth from God but the Spirit-enabled interpretation of biblical prophecies and application of those prophecies to unfolding history. Garnet Milne suggests, “It is a belief in mediate prophecy, in which Scripture plays the central role, which explains why the cessation of immediate prophecy was not seen to nullify the availability of insight into the future for those who lived by the written Word of God.”
​

I see from above you understand the concept involved. I think it a useful term for conveying the difference between direct inspiration and indirect. I know it's used in EP discussions (I'm not EP) but it has proper application elsewhere.

Thanks. That was helpful.

 

[ProtestantBankie]

Concerning the Holy Bible Mr Carroll says:

First of all, if you insist on being all formal, it's Rev. Carroll and not Mr. Second, the reason I "keep bringing up" the NWT is it seems to be a fatal flaw in the position. If inspiration only applies to the verses that are translated correctly, then we are left with a version that is inspired, by this definition, in some places and not in others. Again, I am not trying to argue, but to UNDERSTAND a term that in all of my theological studies and 24 years of pastoral ministry I have never heard once before this week.

I could be wrong, but seem to me that what the Divines were referring to as providential preservation is virtually synonymous with mediate inspiration (not inspiration proper).

That may very well be the case but I find the use of the word "inspired" in place of the confessional language needlessly confusing.

Sir,

As a member of the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) here in Glasgow (Scotland) I can tell you that is part of the culture of our church to refer to our Ministers as "Mr/Dr Surname". While we us the term Reverend for Formal Intimations. If someone from my denomination calls you "Mr Carroll" it is recognition of your ministerial office and part of the culture that is retained in the Free Church of Scotland anywhere in the world.

My minister Reverend William Macleod will be called "Mr Macleod" when I greet him at the door - and Pastor Malcolm Watts of the Reformed Baptist stripe in England when preaching at our communion was called "Mr Watts".

I would hope you would not believe us either informal or formal. But respectful of your office and position.

 

[kevin.carroll]

Who knew this would become such an interesting discussion on cultural differences?

 

[ProtestantBankie]

Who knew this would become such an interesting discussion on cultural differences?

Well, as I read your posts on this thread Mr Carroll I have to remind myself that "charity suffereth long and is kind".

 

[MW]

They say that the originals were inspired and since then God has preserved his Word.

They speak of the originals as being "immediately inspired." What follows in terms of preservation and translation is for the purpose of showing that what the church has access to is nothing less than "the word of God." The divines do not teach the existence of a "word of God" which is not inspired.

 

[Edward]

"the Revd"

Shouldn't there be an apostrophe? "The Rev'd"

 

[kevin.carroll]

Well, as I read your posts on this thread Mr Carroll I have to remind myself that "charity suffereth long and is kind".

Not being able to infer whether that was a compliment or criticism, I will read it charitably and say, "Thank you."

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

"the Revd"

Shouldn't there be an apostrophe? "The Rev'd"

I have seen an apostrophe used before, but, normally, "the Revd" is the conventional abbreviation. You could probably get away with using either abbreviation.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Okay; now that we've settled the honorific this smells done.