God glorified by unbelievers

[ReformedInSweden]

How is God glorified by unbelievers? How does it glorify God when someone rejects him through his whole life in spite of many opportunities and finally gets lost?
I believe Rom. 9:22-23 talks about this "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory." but I still don't understand it exactly. Can someone clarify?

 

[Daniel M.]

I love this question.

Let me ask you one in turn: when was the first time that you learned how precious water was?

Was it in the shower? The lake? A rainy day?

Or was it the first time you were desperately thirsty with no water in sight?

God is glorified in the destruction and judgment of the reprobate. *gasp* "What? How?!"

Let us remember that there is not one attribute of God that lacks in glory or is more glorious than the other. He is God, He is one, and ALL of Him is glorious.

When the reprobate is destroyed and condemned, who do you think will witness this? Why, the elect, of course!! How much greater will his mercy seem when we see what we're saved from? How glorious will God be to us when we see His holiness and righteous stand against iniquity?

Everything God says, does and stands for is glorious in equal measure.

We could never appreciate our salvation (water) without witnessing judgment and condemnation (thirst).


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[C. Matthew McMahon]

Some people may say, I can’t see myself rejoicing in heaven while people are in hell tormented under God’s wrath. I don’t see how I could do it. When the saints in glory shall see the wrath of God executed on ungodly men, it will not be an occasion of grief to them, but of rejoicing.[1] The glorified saints will see the wrath of God executed on ungodly men who are the enemies of Christ (Isa. 64:24). At the day of judgment, the saints in glory at Christ’s right hand, will see the wicked at the left hand in their amazement and horror, will hear the Judge pronounce sentence on them, saying, “Depart, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels,” and will see them go away into everlasting punishment. But they will do so in a glorified state of mind, and in agreement with Christ against His enemies. When they shall see this, it will not be a grief to them, for we know that in heaven God has promised that He will wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall he no more sorrow (Rev. 20:4). Jonathan Edwards says:

The sufferings of the damned will be no occasion of grief to the heavenly inhabitants, as they will have no love nor pity to the damned as such. It will be no argument of want of a spirit of love in them, that they do not love the damned; for the heavenly inhabitants will know that it is not fit that they should love them, because they will know then, that God has no love to them, nor pity for them; but that they are the objects of God’s eternal hatred.

They will then be perfectly conformed to God in their wills and affections. They will love what God loves, and that only. However the saints in heaven may have loved the damned while here, especially those of them who were near and dear to them in this world, they will have no love to them hereafter…It will be an occasion of their rejoicing, as the glory of God will appear in it.

The glory of God appears in all his works: and therefore there is no work of God which the saints in glory shall behold and contemplate but what will be an occasion of rejoicing to them. God glorifies himself in the eternal damnation of the ungodly men. God glorifies himself in all that he does…The saints in heaven will be perfect in their love to God: their hearts will be all a flame of love to God, and therefore they will greatly value the glory of God, and will exceedingly delight in seeing him glorified. The saints highly value the glory of God here in this, but how much more will they so do in the world to come? They will therefore greatly rejoice in all that contributes to that glory. The glory of God will in their esteem be of greater consequence, than the welfare of thousands and millions of souls…They will rejoice in seeing the justice of God glorified in the sufferings of the damned.

The misery of the damned, dreadful as it is, is but what justice requires. They in heaven will see and know it much more clearly, than any of us do here. They will see how perfectly just and righteous their punishment is, and therefore how properly inflicted by the supreme Governor of the world. They will greatly rejoice to see justice take place, to see that all the sin and wickedness that have been committed in the world is remembered of God, and has its due punishment. The sight of this strict and immutable justice of God will render him amiable and adorable in their eyes. They will rejoice when they see him who is their Father and eternal portion so glorious in his justice.

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[1] See The End of the Wicked Contemplated by the Righteous by Jonathan Edwards.

 

[Daniel M.]

Can't help but add this as a sidebar to my comment above: remember that it is totally biblical to deeply desire the salvation of all the people you know!

Pray unceasingly for those who deny Christ in your life! For all you know, it could be the will of God to gather them unto Him in response to your prayer!!!


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[py3ak]

God's glory is revealed by and upon the wicked in at east three ways.

The glory of his patience or long-suffering is revealed in how much provocation God endures while continuing to pour out good gifts.
The glory of God's justice is revealed in the perfectly apt and suitable punishment which he brings upon the finally impenitent.
And the glory of his grace stands out more vividly by contrast, as others have noted.

 

[KeithW]

This video is a bit different to what you ask, but is possibly relevant. The video contains two other video clips.

One clip was from a debate between an atheist and an Arminian. The topic was theodicy - divine goodness and providence in view of the existence of evil. The atheist question was, if God exists how can He know in advance a baby will die of cancer if this God is good and loving? The Arminian was unable to directly answer the question, because his system cannot answer the question. The atheist recognized this and was persistent in pointing out the Arminian was not answering the question but skirting around it.

The second clip was from a debate between the same atheist and a Calvinist (James White). The atheist asked the same question. Every response the Calvinist gave always first stated who God is, and in that context what the answer is. The atheist recognized there were no holes in the response, lost steam in his pursuit of this specific topic, and had to give up.

The video is,

"How Theology Determines Apologetics, and So Much More"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxkYOCJ0pM0

This starts in the middle of something Dr. White was responding to, the difference between evidentialists (we can only know God by observation in the world) and presuppositionalists (we start with what God says in His Word). In the 1st debate video clip the atheist is David Silverman (really dark hair, white shirt, no jacket), and the Arminian is Dr. Frank Turek (dark suit jacket). In the 2nd debate clip the atheist is still David Silverman, but the Calvinist is Dr. James White. The starting point I give provides enough of an introduction to follow the context of the video clips.

The whole video is 2 hours long. Skip most of it and watch 36:00 to about 60:00.

edit: The point in showing this is not whether or not the Arminian argues poorly, but I believe the Calvinist is saying something relevant to the original question of this thread.

 

[ReformedInSweden]

Thanks, I'll check out that video!