SBC Church: Female Voluntary Assistant Pastor Preaching on the Lord's Day Worship

[chothomas]

I started attending a Korean American Church since moving to the Bay Area for a job two years ago. My wife and I are SBC cooperating baptists and believe in SBC Faith and Message 2000. We are bi-lingual but my widowed mother who lives with us only speaks Korean, so we chose this "loosely" SBC affiliated church.

The baptist church we attend is SBC in name only. I would exactly call it a baptist church other than we perform immersion if someone desires regardless of any confirmations or teachings of what credo-baptism actually means. Doctrines and theologies are not exactly important to most Korean American churches or Korean American Christians. Most Korean American churches are more fellowship focused than biblical inerrancy.

My wife, my older daughter, and I are involved in many programs serving in various roles, so we are pretty entrenched since we joined the church. Recently, our youth group's assistant pastor (not ordained yet) started letting his wife preach to our youth group (middle and high schoolers). She did attend and finish Gateway Seminary (formerly Golden Gate), but she is not an official staff, but more like a voluntary pastoral staff. Our senior pastor is pretty loose (he holds to Fuller Seminary theology... somewhat liberal), so do believe in female pastorship.

They both truly cares for our youths and I really like them, but their passions tend to be unbridled and their preaching style is feelings oriented (very frequent alter calls). I did ask them if they believe in SBC Faith and Message regarding male pastorship, but they feel that both can preach to our youth group. My daughter is in the youth group and I am concerned since my wife and I hold to complimentarian beliefs and that the role of pastorship is for men qualified by the scripture.

It is very difficult to find a reformed church in the bay area. Is this something that I should be concerned about since it is our church youth group?

I sincerely ask for some guidance.

 

[Jake]

It might worth looking into Presbyterian churches in the area, even though you are Baptist. There are several PCA churches in the Korean presbytery in the Bay area, although I'm not sure where you are: http://www.pcaac.org/church-search/

The Korean American Presbyterian Church also appears to have churches in the Bay area, but I find it more difficult to navigate their site: http://www.kapc.org/ga/

 

[chothomas]

I attended a Korean PCA church before moving. Korean American churches tend focus on being culturally relevant and it is harder to find bi-lingual pastors.

I am more asking when Paul writes in 1 Tim. 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet", should we be interpreting "man" as being adults? If so, what age is consider to be a man? In the book of Exodus, the age of 20 seems to be the breaking point, but Jewish tradition lists 12 or 13 to be sons of the law.

What is the correct understanding of the word "man". Is it just being male or adult male?

 

[Joshua]

I confidently suggest First OPC San Francisco, Pastor Glenn Ferrell, if you're looking for a Reformed Church in the Bay Area.

 

[Andrew P.C.]

I attended a Korean PCA church before moving. Korean American churches tend focus on being culturally relevant and it is harder to find bi-lingual pastors.

I am more asking when Paul writes in 1 Tim. 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet", should we be interpreting "man" as being adults? If so, what age is consider to be a man? In the book of Exodus, the age of 20 seems to be the breaking point, but Jewish tradition lists 12 or 13 to be sons of the law.

What is the correct understanding of the word "man". Is it just being male or adult male?

John Gill:

1 Timothy 2:12

But I suffer not a woman to teach, c,] They may teach in private, in their own houses and families they are to be teachers of good things, Tit 2:3. They are to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; nor is the law or doctrine of a mother to be forsaken, any more than the instruction of a father; see Pr 1:8. Timothy, no doubt, received much advantage, from the private teachings and instructions of his mother Eunice, and grandmother Lois; but then women are not to teach in the church; for that is an act of power and authority, and supposes the persons that teach to be of a superior degree, and in a superior office, and to have superior abilities to those who are taught by them:

nor to usurp authority over the man; as not in civil and political things, or in things relating to civil government; and in things domestic, or the affairs of the family; so not in things ecclesiastical, or what relate to the church and government of it; for one part of rule is to feed the church with knowledge and understanding; and for a woman to take upon her to do this, is to usurp an authority over the man: this therefore she ought not to do,

but to be in silence; to sit and hear quietly and silently, and learn, and not teach, as in 1Ti 2:11.






John Calvin:

1 Timothy 2:12

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach. Not that he takes from them the charge of instructing their family, but only excludes them from the office of teaching, which God has committed to men only. On this subject we have explained our views in the exposition of the First Epistle to the Corinthians. (39) If any one bring forward, by way of objection, Deborah (Jud 4:4) and others of the same class, of whom we read that they were at one time appointed by the command of God to govern the people, the answer is easy. Extraordinary acts done by God do not overturn the ordinary rules of government, by which he intended that we should be bound. Accordingly, if women at one time held the office of prophets and teachers, and that too when they were supernaturally called to it by the Spirit of God, He who is above all law might do this; but, being a peculiar case, (40) this is not opposed to the constant and ordinary system of government.

He adds — what is closely allied to the office of teaching — and not to assume authority over the man; for the very reason, why they are forbidden to teach, is, that it is not permitted by their condition. They are subject, and to teach implies the rank of power or authority. Yet it may be thought that there is no great force in this argument; because even prophets and teachers are subject to kings and to other magistrates. I reply, there is no absurdity in the same person commanding and likewise obeying, when viewed in different relations. But this does not apply to the case of woman, who by nature (that is, by the ordinary law of God) is formed to obey; for γυναικοκρατία (the government of women) has always been regarded by all wise persons as a monstrous thing; and, therefore, so to speak, it will be a mingling of heaven and earth, if women usurp the right to teach. Accordingly, he bids them be “quiet,” that is, keep within their own rank. (41)

I think the issue here is understanding what ought to happen in church. We shouldn't look at this from a "what age is man" point of view. We should look at this from an ecclesiastical view. Is it proper for an non-ordained servant to teach anyone in the church? I would hope the clear answer is no. The scriptures are clear in that office bearers are to take responsibility for the equipping and development of the saints.

I provided two commentators on this passage to demonstrate that there is a difference between a mother at home, teaching her children, and a woman teaching the church.

So, to answer you directly, it is inappropriate for a women to teach *youth* groups.

 

[chothomas]

Out of desperate attempt to stay with the current fellowship with my church, it looks like I was looking for a loophole in the bible. Instead of objectively looking at the holy scripture and obeying out of the love and knowledge of God, I was minimizing my responsibility. I have forgotten that "it is better to obey than to sacrifice".

Thank you all for advising this fallen brother.

 

[Jack K]

In case you are still gathering and processing thoughts, I will add this:

Concern and respect for your mother is highly commended in Scripture. We Reformed folk tend to be quick to insist that churches must do things the right way. But in fact, finding a church that gets everything just right is not automatically more important than respecting and caring for your mother. So, how badly does this church get things wrong?

I, for one, believe a woman may be appointed to lead an event for kids in the church and to teach Bible lessons to them. What you describe, though, pushes against several edges. (1) The "kids" in question are near adulthood. (2) The "teaching" sounds more like preaching. (3) The "lessons" take on an altar call approach.

So, I do NOT think the error is so clear and grave that you absolutely must not worship there. But both the approach to youth ministry and the general direction of the church are concerning enough that you will not feel good there, either. You're correct to feel that the combination of practices is not quite right, or at least it's not very wise even if it may be technically allowable.

I appreciate that this is a tough issue for you. I don't think the answer is necessarily clear or easy.