C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
I believe it is a sign and seal - but not of salvation.
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I believe it is a sign and seal - but not of salvation.
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
What about Presumptive Financial Success? Health/Wealth baby!!
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Fred,
But you still have to deal with all the devines; this is what they ascribed to. I know you don't agree. Did you read the quotes that I posted in the beginning of the thread? You don't want to go there again do you?
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Fred,
But you still have to deal with all the devines; this is what they ascribed to. I know you don't agree. Did you read the quotes that I posted in the beginning of the thread? You don't want to go there again do you?
Read the quotes, been there, almost ordered the T-Shirt. They don't support PR.
Especially look at the Bradford quote you provided. It is explicitly PE.
ohn Bradford, "In baptism is required God's election, if the child be an infant, or faith, if he be of age." (The Writings of John Bradford, Banner of Truth Trust, Carlisle, 1979, Volume 2, Page 290)
The Second Helvetic Confession, "We condemn the Anabaptists, who deny that newborn infants of the faithful are to be baptized. For according to evangelical teaching, of such is the Kingdom of God, and they are in the covenant of God. Why, then, should the sign of God's covenant not be given to them? Why should those who belong to God and are in his Church not be initiated by holy baptism?" (Chapter 20, Of Holy Baptism.)
The Heidelberg Catechism, "Q74: Are infants also to be baptized? A74: Yes, for since they, as well as their parents, belong to the covenant and people of God, and through the blood of Christ both redemption from sin and the Holy Ghost, who works faith, are promised to them no less than to their parents, they are also by Baptism, as a sign of the covenant, to be ingrafted into the Christian Church, and distinguished from the children of unbelievers, as was done in the Old Testament by circumcision, in place of which in the New Testament Baptism is appointed. (Lord's Day 27)
The Belgic Confession, "Therefore we detest the error of the Anabaptists, who are not content with the one only baptism they have once received, and moreover condemn the baptism of the infants of believers, who we believe ought to be baptized and sealed with the sign of the covenant, as the children in Israel formerly were circumcised upon the same promises which are made unto our children. And indeed Christ shed His blood no less for the washing of the children of believers than for adult persons; and therefore they ought to receive the sign and sacrament of that which Christ has done for them; as the Lord commanded in the law that they should be made partakers of the sacrament of Christ's suffering and death shortly after they were born, by offering for them a lamb, which was a sacrament of Jesus Christ. Moreover, what circumcision was to the Jews, baptism is to our children. And for this reason St. Paul calls baptism the circumcision of Christ." (Article 34
Benjamin Warfield, "All baptism is inevitably administered on the basis not of knowledge but of presumption and if we must baptize on presumption the whole principle is yielded; and it would seem that we must baptize all whom we may fairly presume to be members of Christ's body." (The Polemics of Infant Baptism, The Presbyterian Quarterly (April, 1899), Page 313
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Fred,
Just because PE it is not mentioned in these particular quotes does not necessarily imply that they didn't embrace the discipline. Regeneration is not conversion and conversion is not regneration. You ascribe to PE; how is PR any worse? I mean, truly, how much difference is there between election and regeneration? As an infant, regeneration could not be measured. Again, it all comes down to the level of faith one has. You say, "I will believe my children are elect". If they never come to faith, what will you say? "I guess they were not elect"? If my childre fail to come to faith, I will say, "I must hold to the idea that God is never unfaithful. My children have broken His covenant and are cursed."
2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.