Why did Israel lose the Kingdom?
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nonconformist
Puritan Board Freshman
Rolden
Interesting, I am reading an article with this same interpretation, it seems to be a solid interpretation, defenitely some strong arguments
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Originally posted by nonconformist
Rolden
Interesting, I am reading an article with this same interpretation, it seems to be a solid interpretation, defenitely some strong arguments
For more on this subject I suggest reading Iain Murray's The Puritan Hope which is available online at this site.
I was about to recommend the same thing.
Roldan
Puritan Board Junior
I can't find it. 
But just to tickle the ears a little
I believe that any emphasis on a future anything with national Israel shows traces of a dispensational hermenuetic.
I as a faithful follower of Christ am Israel, I am the Land, I am the true Jew circumcised of the heart. What else could this mean? If a TRUE Jew is one inward of the heart a spiritual jewish high priest, then what would that make a physical ethnic Jew? If there are any 100% jews left anyways. which I doubt very much.
No this is not replacement theology but fullfillment theology. How can we go from shadow to reality then shadow again? I don't accept this hermeneutic.
[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Roldan]
But just to tickle the ears a little
I believe that any emphasis on a future anything with national Israel shows traces of a dispensational hermenuetic. I as a faithful follower of Christ am Israel, I am the Land, I am the true Jew circumcised of the heart. What else could this mean? If a TRUE Jew is one inward of the heart a spiritual jewish high priest, then what would that make a physical ethnic Jew? If there are any 100% jews left anyways. which I doubt very much.
No this is not replacement theology but fullfillment theology. How can we go from shadow to reality then shadow again? I don't accept this hermeneutic.
[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Roldan]
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
If you go to the link and plug in "puritan hope" as the search term, you should be able to find it.
The Puritans based their belief on a future mass conversion of the Jews on Romans 11 in particular. It is part of standard historic Puritan postmillennial thinking.
The Westminster Standards teach this as well. It is quite distinct from erroneous dispensational views about the Jews.
The Puritans based their belief on a future mass conversion of the Jews on Romans 11 in particular. It is part of standard historic Puritan postmillennial thinking.
The Westminster Standards teach this as well. It is quite distinct from erroneous dispensational views about the Jews.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Originally posted by Roldan
I can't find it.
But just to tickle the ears a little
I as a faithful follower of Christ am Israel, I am the Land, I am the true Jew circumcised of the heart. What else could this mean? If a TRUE Jew is one inward of the heart a spiritual jewish high priest, then what would that make a physical ethnic Jew? If there are any 100% jews left anyways. which I doubt very much.
No this is not replacement theology but fullfillment theology. How can we go from shadow to reality then shadow again? I don't accept this hermeneutic.
[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Roldan]
If Israel in this chapter means "the church" or "elect," then why the contrast with Gentiles, who in every other contrast with the word word Israel means "non-Israelite," suggesting that Israel in this case means Israel.
Secondly, why is Paul concerned that the elect might be lost? Sure, there are passages that exhort us to work out our salvation, make our election sure, etc.
verse 12: and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, (whose failure? The Church's? No.)
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Granted,
We don't want to make the mistakes of NeoCons and Dispensationalists, both of whom worship the secular nation state of Israel.
We don't want to make the mistakes of NeoCons and Dispensationalists, both of whom worship the secular nation state of Israel.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
For the moment I have a very loose definition of "Jew." There was a thread dealing with that question that was quickly massacred by ad hominems. You raise a good point, though. To what degree is a person Jewish? I don't know.
nonconformist
Puritan Board Freshman
Nice, you have all the connectionsOriginally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Originally posted by nonconformist
Rolden
Interesting, I am reading an article with this same interpretation, it seems to be a solid interpretation, defenitely some strong arguments
For more on this subject I suggest reading Iain Murray's The Puritan Hope which is available online at this site.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
Judaism was never really strictly ethnic. Gentiles were always welcome to join and did in the OT. Read Exodus, Ruth, and Esther. n Exodus, Moses recounts that other Egyptians also accompanied the Hebrews in the exodus. Esther in particular recounts a massive conversion of people to Judaism. They are probably even more ethnically "diluted" now with their spread and integration throughout Europe and America. Whatever teh case, Paul is only refering to teh elect remnant of Jews in Romans 11. The only real debate is the timing of the conversion of the remnant.
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