Sovereign Grace
Puritan Board Sophomore
I know the Greek word 'nekros' means a literal corpse. But is it properly used as a corpse as I us it in that fashion?
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νεκρός, ά, όν
A. as adj. (perh. as early as Hom., certainly Pind.; in Ath. only R. title)
① pert. to being in a state of loss of life, dead, of pers.: lit. καταπίπτειν νεκρόν fall dead Ac 28:6. ἤρθη νεκρός he was taken up dead 20:9 (another possibility is as dead, for dead: Lucian, Ver. Hist. 1, 22; Eunapius, Vi. Soph. 76 συγχωρήσατε τῷ νεκρῷ [the one who is deathly sick] με δοῦναι φάρμακον.—ἤρθη ν. as TestJud 9:3). νεκρὸς κεῖται (Mel., P. 90, 672) lies dead AcPt Ox 849 recto, 15.—Ac 5:10; Js 2:26a. ἔπεσα πρὸς τοὺς πόδας αὐτοῦ ὡς ν. I fell at his feet as if I were dead Rv 1:17 (ὡς ν. as Diod S 36, 8, 4; TestAbr A 9 p. 86, 17 [Stone p. 20]). ἐγενήθησαν ὡς νεκροί Mt 28:4. ἐγένετο ὡσεὶ νεκρός Mk 9:26. Of Christ ἐγενόμην ν. I was dead Rv 1:18; cp. 2:8.
② pert. to being so morally or spiritually deficient as to be in effect dead, dead, fig. ext. of 1
ⓐ of pers. (Soph., Philoct. 1018 ἄφιλον ἔρημον ἄπολιν ἐν ζῶσιν νεκρόν; Menand., Colax 50; Epict. 3, 23, 28; schol. on Aristoph., Ran. 423 διὰ τὴν κακοπραγίαν νεκροὺς τοὺς Ἀθηναίους καλεῖ; Sextus 175 ν. παρὰ θεῷ; Philo, Leg. All. 3, 35, Conf. Lingu. 55, Fuga 56) of the prodigal son either thought to be dead, missing, or morally dead, depraved Lk 15:24, 32. Of a congregation that is inactive, remiss Rv 3:1. Of persons before baptism Hs 9, 16, 3f; 6. W. dat. of disadvantage ν. τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ dead to sin Ro 6:11.—ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῶντας Ro 6:13; sim. on the mng. of baptism ν. τοῖς παραπτώμασιν dead in sins Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13. Of worldly-minded Christians: τὸ ἥμισυ ν. ἐστι Hs 8, 8, 1 v.l.
ⓑ of things ν. ἔργα dead works that cannot bring eternal life Hb 6:1; 9:14; Hs 9, 21, 2. ἡ πίστις χωρὶς ἔργων ν. ἐστιν faith apart from deeds (i.e. without practical application) is dead, useless Js 2:26b (κενή P74), cp. vss. 17, 20 v.l. (DVerseput, Reworking the Puzzle of Faith and Deeds in Js 2:14–26: NTS 43, ’97, 97–115). Of sin χωρὶς νόμου ἁμαρτία ν. where there is no law, sin is dead, i.e. sin is not perceptible Ro 7:8 (cp. 5:20). Of the believer, in whom Christ lives: τὸ σῶμα νεκρόν the body (of σάρξ and sin) is dead 8:10 (Herm. Wr. 7, 2 visible corporeality is called ὁ αἰσθητικὸς νεκρός. Sim. Philo, Leg. All. 3, 69ff, Gig. 15).
③ pert. to having never been alive and lacking capacity for life, dead, lifeless (Wsd 15:5; Ar. 3:2; Just., A I, 9, 1 ἀψυχα καὶ νεκρά) of the brass serpent 12:7. Of polytheistic objects of cultic devotion PtK 2 p. 14, 21. νεκροὶ θεοί 2 Cl 3:1; D 6:3. (On the borderline between 1 and 2: τὰ μὲν ὀνόματα … θεῶν ὀνόματά ἐστιν νεκρῶν ἀνθρώπων Theoph. Ant. 1, 9 [p. 76, 8]).
B. as subst. ὁ ν. (so mostly Hom.+; ins, pap, LXX, En 103:5; TestGad 4:6; ApcEsdr 4:36; Philo; Jos., Bell. 4, 331 al.; Ar. 15, 3; Just., Mel., Ath., R. title; Jos.)
① one who is no longer physically alive, dead person, a dead body, a corpse, lit. Lk 7:15; Hb 9:17; 11:35; Rv 20:5; 12:13. μακάριοι οἱ ν. οἱ ἐν κυρίῳ ἀποθνῄσκοντες 14:13; cp. 1 Th 4:16. Without art. νεκροῦ βληθέντος AcPlCor 2:32 (w. ζῶν as Appian, Liby. 129 §617 τ. νεκροὺς κ. τ. ζῶντας; Aesop, Fab. 69 H.=288 P.; EpArist 146) of God οὐκ ἔστιν (ὁ) θεὸς νεκρῶν ἀλλὰ ζώντων Mt 22:32; Mk 12:27; Lk 20:38. καὶ ν. καὶ ζώντων κυριεύειν rule over the living and the dead i.e. over all humankind past and present Ro 14:9. κρίνειν ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς 2 Ti 4:1; 1 Pt 4:5; 7:2; κριτὴς ζώντων καὶ ν. Ac 10:42; 2 Cl 1:1; Pol 2:1. In this combination ν. without the article means all the dead, all those who are in the underworld (νεκροί=the dead: Thu. 4, 14, 5; 5, 10, 12; Lucian, Ver. Hist. 1, 39; Polyaenus 4, 2, 5). Of deceased Christians νεκροῖς εὐαγγελίσθη 1 Pt 4:6 (Selwyn, comm. 337–39). The art. can also be used without special significance: ὁ καιρὸς τῶν ν. κριθῆναι Rv 11:18; οἱ ν. ἀκούσουσιν τῆς φωνῆς τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ J 5:25. In prepositional phrases oft. without the art. ἐκ. ν. and ἀπὸ ν. (B-D-F §254, 2; Rob. 791f). ἐγείρειν ἐκ ν., ἐγείρεσθαι ἐκ ν. Mt 17:9; Mk 6:14; Lk 9:7; 24:46; J 2:22; 12:1, 9, 17; 21:14; Ac 3:15; 4:10; 13:30; Ro 4:24; 6:4, 9; 7:4; 8:11ab, 34 v.l.; 10:9; 1 Cor 15:12a, 20; Gal 1:1; Eph 1:20; Col 2:12; 2 Ti 2:8; Hb 11:19; 1 Pt 1:21; IMg 9:3; ITr 9:2; Pol 2:1f; 5:2; AcPlCor 2:6; 5:2. ἀναστῆναι ἐκ ν. and ἀναστῆσαί τινα ἐκ ν. (Just.; Mel., P.) Mk 9:9f; 12:25; Lk 16:31; J 20:9; Ac 10:41; 13:34; 17:3, 31; 1 Cl 24:1; 15:9; GPt 8:30 (KKuhn, NTS 7, ’61, 343f); Papias (11:3); Qua. ἡ ἐκ ν. ἀνάστασις (Mel., P. 3, 20) 5:6; Lk 20:35; Ac 4:2. Also ἡ ἐξανάστασις ἡ ἐκ ν. Phil 3:11; ζωὴ ἐκ ν. Ro 11:15; ἀνάγειν ἐκ ν. (Just., A I, 45, 1; 50, 12 al.) bring up from the realm of the dead Ro 10:7; Hb 13:20. ἀπὸ ν. πορεύεσθαι πρός τινα come up to someone fr. the realm of the dead Lk 16:30. Somet. the art. is included in these prep. combinations without appreciable difference in mng.: ἐγείρεσθαι ἀπὸ τῶν ν. Mt 14:2; 27:64; 28:7 (but ἐγείρεσθαι ἐκ ν. 17:9). ἐγείρειν ἐκ τῶν ν. 1 Th 1:10 v.l.; πρωτότοκος ἐκ τῶν ν. Col 1:18 beside ὁ πρωτότοκος τῶν ν. Rv 1:5. The art. is often omitted w. the gen.; so as a rule in ἀνάστασις ν. (Did., Gen. 96, 13) resurrection of the dead, an expr. that is explained by the locution ἀναστῆναι ἐκ ν. (also Ar. 15, 3; Just., D. 80, 4) Ac 17:32; 23:6; 24:21; 26:23; Ro 1:4; 1 Cor 15:12b, 13, 21; D 16:6. νεκροῦ ἀνάστασιν Papias (2:9). ἀνάστασις ἐκ ν. 1 Pt 1:3; ἐκ ν. ἀνάστασις AcPlCor 2:35. Also ἀνάστασις τῶν ν. Mt 22:31; 1 Cor 15:42 (Just., D. 45, 2). νεκροὺς ἐγείρειν raise the dead Mt 10:8; Ac 26:8; AcPl Ha 8, 35=BMM verso 8f. Pass. (Theoph. Ant. 1, 8 [p. 74, 6]) Mt 11:5; Lk 7:22 (cp. 4Q 521:12; on the fig. understanding s. κωφός 2); 1 Cor 15:15f, 29b, 32. Also τοὺς ν. ἐγείρειν J 5:21; 2 Cor 1:9. Pass. Mk 12:26; Lk 20:37; 1 Cor 15:35, 52. Of God ζωοποιεῖν τοὺς ν. Ro 4:17. μετὰ τῶν ν. among the dead Lk 24:5. βαπτίζεσθαι ὑπὲρ τῶν ν. be baptized for the dead 1 Cor 15:29a (s. βαπτίζω 2c; JWhite, JBL 116, 97, 487–99). τάφοι νεκρῶν IPhld 6:1. ὀστέα νεκρῶν the bones of the dead Mt 23:27. ἄτονος ὥσπερ νεκροῦ νεῦρα powerless as the sinews of a corpse Hm 12, 6, 2. αἷμα ὡς νεκροῦ blood like that of a dead person Rv 16:3.
② one who is so spiritually obtuse as to be in effect dead, dead pers., fig. ext. of 1 (cp. Philo, Fuga 56) ἄφες τοὺς ν. θάψαι τοὺς ἑαυτῶν ν. let the dead bury their dead of those who do not give priority to discipleship Mt 8:22; Lk 9:60 (cp. Theophyl. Sim., Ep. 25 τ. θνητοῖς τὰ θνητὰ καταλείψομεν.—FPerles, ZNW 19, 1920, 96; 25, 1926, 286f; Bleibtreu [s. μισέω 2]. AEhrhardt, Studia Theologica VI, 2, ’53, 128–64.—θάπτειν τοὺς ν. lit. Jos., Bell. 5, 518). The words ἀνάστα ἐκ τ. νεκρῶν Eph 5:14 appear to belong to a hymn (s. Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 1921, 136) that may have become part of the baptism ritual (MDibelius, Hdb. ad loc.; FDölger, Sol Salutis2, 1925, 364ff).—B. 290. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 667–668). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Thanks. I have to use Strong's, seeing I am no Greek scholar.νεκρός does not mean "literally" a corpse. It has a range of meanings depending upon the context in which it is used.
Rich is correct. A figure of speech can effect even the root meaning of the word. In Ephesians 2:1, Paul writes, "You were therefore dead [nekros] in your trespasses and sins". In this passage, Paul is using nekros to compare the spiritual state of the believers at Ephesus to their state prior to their conversion. He cannot use nekros literally because the individuals he is writing to are alive. However, in their former, sinful state they were very much dead. In that sense the correlation between a corpse and being dead in sin can be made.
Willis,Well, when I debate ppl on other boards, they say the lost are dead, meaning they are not literally a corpse, but just separated from God. That stance opens a huge can of worms.
I posted this on another site.
"Now, if 'dead' does not mean dead, as in a corpse, then by using that same logic, 'life' does not really mean life, seeing that the opposite of being spiritually dead is to be spiritually alive.
Now, if we were not dead, as in a corpse, but merely separated from God, as many claim it to be; then they have opened a huge can of worms. Here's what I mean. If the only thing God did was move us from point A(separated from Him by our sins), and then move us to point B(being placed in Christ), then He has not improved our spiritual state whatsoever. He just moved us from a state of condemnation to justification without any improvement of our spirit.
Then if we are not really dead, then we are not really alive. I see the other side of the debate attempt to redefine words. Hate does not really hate, He just loves less. By that same logic, love does not mean love, He just tolerates those He saves more than those who die in their sins. Dead does not mean corpse, but merely separation from Him. Then life does not really mean life, just in accord with Him.
I am not willing to accept any of these notions.
And this...
They're not following their thought about this to its logical conclusion. If they are not a corpse, not really spiritually dead, then they are spiritually alive(as there is no intermediate state betwixt life and death) outside of Christ.
They would be separated from God, due to their spiritual condition of being in a sin natured state, unable to have a relationship with God in and by themselves, and also would be unable and unwilling to even get one in that state!Well, when I debate ppl on other boards, they say the lost are dead, meaning they are not literally a corpse, but just separated from God. That stance opens a huge can of worms.
I posted this on another site.
"Now, if 'dead' does not mean dead, as in a corpse, then by using that same logic, 'life' does not really mean life, seeing that the opposite of being spiritually dead is to be spiritually alive.
Now, if we were not dead, as in a corpse, but merely separated from God, as many claim it to be; then they have opened a huge can of worms. Here's what I mean. If the only thing God did was move us from point A(separated from Him by our sins), and then move us to point B(being placed in Christ), then He has not improved our spiritual state whatsoever. He just moved us from a state of condemnation to justification without any improvement of our spirit.
Then if we are not really dead, then we are not really alive. I see the other side of the debate attempt to redefine words. Hate does not really hate, He just loves less. By that same logic, love does not mean love, He just tolerates those He saves more than those who die in their sins. Dead does not mean corpse, but merely separation from Him. Then life does not really mean life, just in accord with Him.
I am not willing to accept any of these notions.
And this...
They're not following their thought about this to its logical conclusion. If they are not a corpse, not really spiritually dead, then they are spiritually alive(as there is no intermediate state betwixt life and death) outside of Christ.
Willis,
As Matthew pointed out, there is a relationship to the words selected to describe a person and the way we use the term in other contexts. The problem with woodenly translating νεκρός as corpse is that it may lead to confusion as to what we or the Scriptures are trying to communicate. There's a funny line in Guardians of the Galaxy where one of the characters comes from a planet where they do not use figures of speech. The man says: "Don't use metaphors with Dax, they go over his head."
Dax replies: "Nothing goes over my head for my reflexes are too fast."
One of the things I labor with my congregation is to demonstrate to them a multi-faceted way that the Scriptures intend to communicate the idea of spiritual death.
death vs life
blindness vs sight
deafness vs hearing
slave vs free
flesh vs Spirit
Adam vs Christ
law of the flesh vs law of the Spirit
They're all getting at the same reality. The fundamental issue with many Christians is that they have not reckoned properly the Fall and its effects of plunging all in Adam into an estate of sin and misery - that they have the guilt of his sin imputed to him and inherit his corruption.
It is that latter idea of corruption that we speak of when we talk about death, blindness, deafness, flesh, Adam, etc.
Too many speak in very surface-level terms and say a person is dead and the surface-level response is to say: "Obviously not. He's making decisions and dead people don't do that."
It's therefor necessary to make sure we're unpacking what the theology of the NT is really trying to communicate to us. If we just make broad claims that "words mean things" and don't show the underlying idea being unpacked then we're not communicating the Scriptures clearly and leaving people confused.
I'm preparing to preach in John 6 and it's remarkable how, even in a passage where Christ is explaining the carnality of those coming to him, that they are dead in sin and only come to him to get bread, many still read that passage and come away not seeing the utter need for spiritual life in order to apprehend what Christ gives. It's ironic because the very explanations that many give to the passage are ways to assuage them from the reality that they'd be among the thousands that would turn from Christ if they weren't trying so hard not to be offended by Him.
My last post was an explanation of what Paul means.They would be separated from God, due to their spiritual condition of being in a sin natured state, unable to have a relationship with God in and by themselves, and also would be unable and unwilling to even get one in that state!
They will hear about Jesus, maybe even read the Bible, but it is just historical facts to them, as they have no capacity to spiritually understand...
Believe that you were stating that we need to view being "dead in sin: as people are still physicall alive and can everything all things that relates to being alive that way, its just that we no longer have the means to know God in a saving way and have relationship with Him?My last post was an explanation of what Paul means.
Dead as...
-in Adam
-enslaved to sin
-corruption
-flesh
-blind
-deaf