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Why would you say that Reformed denominations/churches are only a small minority? What could be some of the possible reasons for this?
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So you would say that the reason most Christians do not attend a minority Reformed church is because they are “natural fallen men”?Jesse,
In my opinion, the answer is easy: whether pop-Evangelicalism or Rome (though from different angles), both are natural to fallen man. It is natural to turn the gospel into law, make the bible a "textbook for life", or to earn ones standing before God. To understand ones corrupt condition before God, to realize your passivity (God doing for you) in the sacraments, to have God work through the ordinary means is wholly un-natural to fallen man. It is anti-American....
So you would say that the reason most Christians do not attend a minority Reformed church is because they are “natural fallen men”?
So you would say that the reason most Christians do not attend a minority Reformed church is because they are “natural fallen men”?
If I may....the majority of people do not want Reformed Worship. There are no bells, whistles and zip lines. They want more. Acapela singing, subtle worship in a small congregation is not the norm and most people have not been brought up in churches like this.
Scott, I think you hit the nail on the head. The popular thing and trendy thing right now is not reformed theology, and in fact, Calvinism is viewed as just plain awful by the majority of the church. So naturally, the sheep are going to believe what is popular and "successful" to be right, and anything else will be viewed as "off."You have to conform to the word of God and when the majority are saying that God's word say 'this', especially the unchurched, why would they take our word for it?
I feel like us in the reformed church are simply in a theology nerd cult that need to learn to play with others.
The path is narrow, but I don’t think that Jesus was speaking of strict WCF confessionalism. I’m sure he wasn’t. This would mean that narrowing the requirements for being a Christian is actually narrowing the already narrow path. And if us with a reformed understanding of scripture evacuate the church at large our light will be hidden under a basket. The salt will lose its saltiness.Lastly,
Remember, the path is narrow......that speaks volumes.
In what way?I think Providence may have something to with it.
In what way?
The path is narrow, but I don’t think that Jesus was speaking of strict WCF confessionalism.
This, then, is your infirmity.I guess I am just looking at myself and how long it took me to come to a reformed understanding of scripture. How can I expect this from everyone? Not everyone has obsessive tendencies when it comes to scripture and how it fits together. Sometimes I feel like us in the reformed church are simply in a theology nerd cult that need to learn to play with others.
i agree, but I can’t help but wonder how different the church would be if those with a solid reformed view of scripture were influencing others within evangelical, non-denominational, and non-reformed churches.I don't see it as a strict upholding of the confession per se, but the fact that the confession upholds true biblical tenets, surely God is speaking towards those who hear his voice...
I’m not surprised to hear this reaction, but you are sort of proving my point. I’m not saying the reformed church is a cult. I’m saying that we can become a group of those in “the know” and those outside of it. Most Christians wouldn’t understand most of what you just said or how the 2nd and 4th commandments are still relevant. If you aren’t involved with them to show them the relevance, then how will they know? Maybe you are involved in the lives of non-reformed, and I hope you are because you are a great witness.This, then, is your infirmity.
A cult? A game to play? We don't see it that way. We call it (and believe it to be) the truth, and matters of life and death. A narrow way. Few there be who find it. A belief that the use of God's appointed means is the best and only way to go about Kingdom "growing," all the while acknowledging that we do our duty haltingly, failingly, and imperfectly, such that we remain ever dependent on the Spirit of God to accomplish the drawing of God's elect in the preaching of the Word.
We seek to advance in our practice of the use of the King's appointed means, never trusting in the means (but rather, the King Who makes those means effectual as He so pleases), not only for the initial drawing of the elect, but in the knitting together and perfecting of the saints, eschewing the trappings and gimmicks of the world and her system.
We don't seek to "play" with others, because we're not seeking to "play," period. Ought we endeavor constantly to check our hearts, intentions, and affections toward others? Sure. But I surmise that has very little to do, overall, why in certain periods of history, the professing Reformed churches are "in the minority," which is a subjective designation in the first place.
We would do far better to bemoan the modern Reformed churches' apostasy with regard to the law of God, specifically the 2nd and 4th commandments, in efforts to eschew duty and bloat the numbers, than to navel gaze and wonder why our "numbers" are low. Of course, this begins with each Pilgrim examining and assessing his own woeful negligence of duties, and starting reformation at that level.
What point of yours am I "proving"? You are asserting that reformed churches are in the minority (whatever that means) because most people in reformed churches are not involved in the lives of non-reformed folk? Where did you get this information? What population sample of reformed churches did you pull this information from? Any people "can become a group of" anything. Where are these reformed people you know that are not involved with non-reformed people on such a large scale that you think it's the reason the reformed church is in the minority? What motivated the thread? How are you defining minority? And what is with your "supernaturally led" comment? Who asserts such things in reformed churches that would elicit such a question from you?I’m not surprised to hear this reaction, but you are sort of proving my point. I’m not saying the reformed church is a cult. I’m saying that we can become a group of those in “the know” and those outside of it. Most Christians wouldn’t understand most of what you just said or how the 2nd and 4th commandments are still relevant. If you aren’t involved with them to show them the relevance, then how will they know? Maybe you are involved in the lives of non-reformed, and I hope you are because you are a great witness.
" As the providence of God does, in general, reach to all creatures; so, after a most special manner, it takes care of His Church, and disposes all things to the good thereof." -WCF 5.7In what way?
Or maybe if a person is truly elect they will be led supernaturally to a Reformed church. In this case we should all take down our church signs and rely on the Bible and the Holy Spirit to lead them to our worship services.