Is the Lord's Day necessarily the Sabbath?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Myson

Puritan Board Freshman
Been doing some studying and finding myself in the Sabbatarian camp, but came across an interesting counter-argument that I haven't seen addressed. There are some who might argue that the Sabbath was still on Saturday, but that the Lord's Day was a separate day we ought to observe and does not carry the full weight of the 4th Commandment. Essentially, how do we know for certain that the Lord's Day was the replacement of the Sabbath, especially when some early Christians celebrated both? Was Christ instituting a New Day to worship him but not to rest? How do we know one way or the other?
 
Attached is an excerpt on this matter from John Frame's The Doctrine of the Christian Life (vol. 3 of A Theology of Lordship), pp. 560-68.
 
No, there are no arguments from Scripture alone that would support "the Lord's Day" from Revelation 1:10 as Sunday, or a replacement of the seventh day Sabbath.

To understand how different groups have understood what "the Lord's Day" means we can look to history and tradition, but these things should not hold your conscience captive.
 
No, there are no arguments from Scripture alone that would support "the Lord's Day" from Revelation 1:10 as Sunday, or a replacement of the seventh day Sabbath.

To understand how different groups have understood what "the Lord's Day" means we can look to history and tradition, but these things should not hold your conscience captive.

I assume your argument is in part that the doctrine of the Sabbath relies on good and necessary consequence, which is not in Chapter 1 of your confession (LBCF) like it is the WCF; however, I'll note that LBCF Chapter 22 sees no reason for difference in the doctrine of the Sabbath despite this:

7. It is the law of nature that in general a portion of time specified by God should be set apart for the worship of God. So by his Word, in a positive-moral and perpetual commandment that obligates everyone in every age, he has specifically appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy to him.28 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ the appointed day was the last day of the week. After the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week, which is called the Lord’s Day.29 This day is to be kept to the end of the age as the Christian Sabbath, since the observance of the last day of the week has been abolished.

28Exodus 20:8. 291 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10.
 
Patrick,

Thanks for posting. A solid read thus far (Quoted from J. C. Ryle below):

" I want everyone to regard Sunday as the brightest, cheerfulest day of all the seven; and I tell everyone who finds such a Sunday as I advocate a wearisome day, that there is something sadly wrong in the state of his heart. I tell him plainly that if he cannot enjoy a “holy” Sunday, the fault is not in the day, but in his own soul."
 
Last edited:
I assume your argument is in part that the doctrine of the Sabbath relies on good and necessary consequence, which is not in Chapter 1 of your confession (LBCF) like it is the WCF; however, I'll note that LBCF Chapter 22 sees no reason for difference in the doctrine of the Sabbath despite this:

7. It is the law of nature that in general a portion of time specified by God should be set apart for the worship of God. So by his Word, in a positive-moral and perpetual commandment that obligates everyone in every age, he has specifically appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy to him.28 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ the appointed day was the last day of the week. After the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week, which is called the Lord’s Day.29 This day is to be kept to the end of the age as the Christian Sabbath, since the observance of the last day of the week has been abolished.

28Exodus 20:8. 291 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10.

That is what I was referring to by "tradition" in my post. I know it is a frustrating thing, as I too have come to understand the obligation of the 4th Commandment recently much like the OP.

Solid exegesis is found all along in the books about the Sabbath by Reformed authors until you get to the points about the day change. Here our standard for exegesis falls off just when the burden of proof become much heavier, because we are setting aside what has been written about the Sabbath.

Much time can be saved if the OP knows that he will need to look to history and tradition rather than Scripture to settle this matter.
 
Been doing some studying and finding myself in the Sabbatarian camp, but came across an interesting counter-argument that I haven't seen addressed. There are some who might argue that the Sabbath was still on Saturday, but that the Lord's Day was a separate day we ought to observe and does not carry the full weight of the 4th Commandment. Essentially, how do we know for certain that the Lord's Day was the replacement of the Sabbath, especially when some early Christians celebrated both? Was Christ instituting a New Day to worship him but not to rest? How do we know one way or the other?
My understanding would be that the Sabbath itself never changed, but that the early Christians were moving their day to observe the worship of God to Sunday, the Lord's day itself.
 
Here our standard for exegesis falls off just when the burden of proof become much heavier, because we are setting aside what has been written about the Sabbath.

Much time can be saved if the OP knows that he will need to look to history and tradition rather than Scripture to settle this matter.
Or:
Rather the Original formula from Creation was specifically "work 6 rest 1" and was NOT specifically work Sun.-Fri. and rest Saturday.

Looking at History and Tradition "Rather" than scripture is dangerous. They should be viewed together with the Scripture being "supreme"...not "rathered".

The article linked by @Taylor Sexton is solid.
 
Last edited:
My understanding would be that the Sabbath itself never changed, but that the early Christians were moving their day to observe the worship of God to Sunday, the Lord's day itself.

It's not entirely clear to me what you mean. Do you rest from your ordinary labours on Saturday?
 
I see. In your earlier post, when you mentioned the Sabbath Day never having changed, you were speaking of the one-day-in-seven pattern. Is that correct?
The actual Sabbath itself, the one given by God to israel is still the Saturday day, so the Sunday day is not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day of observing it now for the Christian.
 
The actual Sabbath itself, the one given by God to israel is still the Saturday day, so the Sunday day is not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day of observing it now for the Christian.
David,

Your own confession takes no issue with calling the Lord's Day as a "Sabbath". The Sabbath PRE-dates Israel as a nation.

From Chapter 22 of the 1689:
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
 
Or:
Rather the formula from Creation was "work 6 rest 1" and was NOT specifically work Sun.-Fri. and rest Saturday", which is from Scripture.

Looking at History and Tradition "Rather" than scripture is dangerous. They can be viewed together with the Scripture being "supreme"...not "rathered".

The article linked by @Taylor Sexton is solid.

Actually the command was specific, Exodus 20:8-11 , as was the specific day that God had made holy. Genesis 2:3

If God sanctified Saturday then I cannot sanctify Wednesday so I can still collect wood on the Sabbath. ( Numbers 15:32 )
 
David,

Your own confession takes no issue with calling the Lord's Day as a "Sabbath". The Sabbath PRE-dates Israel as a nation.

From Chapter 22 of the 1689:
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
I know, but the technical truth of the scriptures is that the Sabbath Day Israel observed never has changed, but we do now celebrate the Lord's day.
 
Actually the command was specific, Exodus 20:8-11 , as was the specific day that God had made holy. Genesis 2:3

If God sanctified Saturday then I cannot sanctify Wednesday so I can still collect wood on the Sabbath. ( Numbers 15:32 )
You miss my point.

Also I read those verses and never once saw the word Saturday. I do not debate that the Jewish Sabbath was on Saturday (as we call it), I make the point that God's initial Sabbath formula was "work 6 days and rest on 7th" in the very beginning. Your charge that we cannot look to scripture to see the sabbath day changing is incorrect. Scripture and your confession (LBC) acknowledge your error. Our confessions were not written based on men's conviction of the teaching of history and tradition apart from scripture, but rather on their conviction of the teaching of Scripture and it's Supreme authority.

P.S. I would encourage you to interact with the Frame and Ryle documents linked above. Both are excellent and edifying. Also no one hear is advocating for you to sanctify the Sabbath on Wednesday (unless you were stranded with no calendar on a island, then if you simply follow the 1 in 7 formula you may risk honoring the Lord's Day on Wednesday, but I would not fault you for that my brother;))
 
Last edited:
I know, but the technical truth of the scriptures is that the Sabbath Day Israel observed never has changed, but we do now celebrate the Lord's day.
Oh...so you believe your confession on this point is not "Technically True"?

For what it is worth, I think both the 1689LBC and the Westminster address this matter in a "technically true" way.:detective:

P.S. To be clear, there is a distinction to be made between the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian Sabbath. However, Observing the Christian Sabbath fits perfectly withing scriptures calling to be obedient to the creation ordinance formula and the 4th commandment (in it's moral form).
 
Last edited:
You miss my point.

Also I read those verses and never once saw the word Saturday. I do not debate that the Jewish Sabbath was on Saturday (as we call it), I make the point that God's initial Sabbath formula was "work 6 days and rest on 7th" in the very beginning. Your charge that we cannot look to scripture to see the sabbath day changing is incorrect. Scripture and your confession (LBC) acknowledge your error. Our confessions were not written based on men's conviction of the teaching of history and tradition apart from scripture, but rather on their conviction of the teaching of Scripture and it's Supreme authority.

P.S. I would encourage you to interact with the Frame and Ryle documents linked above. Both are excellent and edifying.

I clearly don't follow you. Pointing to a pattern does not prove a change. It doesn't even prove a possibility of a change. It's an observation that we look to as a way to understand better what God has actually commanded.
 
My understanding would be that the Sabbath itself never changed, but that the early Christians were moving their day to observe the worship of God to Sunday, the Lord's day itself.

[I rest from my ordinary labours] on Sunday, as that to me would be the "Sabbath Day" as a Christian.

The actual Sabbath itself, the one given by God to israel is still the Saturday day, so the Sunday day is not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day of observing it now for the Christian.

[T]he technical truth of the scriptures is that the Sabbath Day Israel observed never has changed, but we do now celebrate the Lord's day.

I am frankly unable to make much sense of all this.
 
I clearly don't follow you. Pointing to a pattern does not prove a change. It doesn't even prove a possibility of a change. It's an observation that we look to as a way to understand better what God has actually commanded.
My point is MORALLY there was no change. Morally the formula is 1 in 7. The NT points to the Church acknowledging the Rest Day being what we call Sunday. I apologize if you do not follow me. For the sake of not getting to off topic, I would end with just encouraging you to wrestle with your confession and the scriptures listed in support.
 
Very Very thorough! The concluding points provide a nice summary. Below if from the article linked by @Scott Bushey


"I shall now summarize what has been said in conclusion to this brief, but necessary study of the 4th commandment.

1. The pre-fall Creation Ordinance of God is binding upon all men since it was given before creation and before the fall.

2. God rested on the seventh day as a pattern of work six days and rest one day which is binding for all men since God did not rest for Himself, but for Adam and his progeny.

3. All men are bound to imitate the Creator as much as is humanly possible.

4. All men should rest following the seventh day pattern which the Lord enacted from before the fall.

5. The Patriarchs knew and observed the Sabbath ordinance from the varied use of the “seven day week” and use of “sevens” seen through the book of Genesis.

6. Silence on observance of the Sabbath through Genesis and the lives of the Patriarchs does not negate the moral responsibility to follow the Law, as much as silence on sacrificing for sin negates the need for blood to atone for sin.

7. Natural light teaches us that a time of worship should be set aside for the created rational creatures of the earth to come together and praise the Creator.

8. The Law in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 is morally binding on all men. It is the Law of God as the perfect reflection of His nature and will and binds all rational creatures to perfect conformity in character and conduct.

9. The code of the Law is God’s revealed will for all men, not just the Jews and includes the moral code of the 4th commandment.

10. The moral Law has annexed to it some Jewish ceremonies which have been abrogated by Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

11. The Moral Law has not been abrogated by Jesus Christ in the New Testament but rather fulfilled.

12. The Old Testament bears much witness to the sanctifying of the moral Law and the Jewish Sabbath.

13. The New Testament bears much witness to the sanctifying of the moral Law and the Christian Sabbath or Lord’s Day based on the resurrection of Christ and the witness of His apostles.

14. Jesus Christ upheld the Sabbath Day.

15. Jesus Christ taught the fullness of the spirit of the Law compared to the letter of Law.

16. The shift from the Jewish Saturday Sabbath to the Resurrection Sabbath of Jesus Christ is evident through various New Testament texts.

17. The shift does not impose a reformulation of the moral Law, but simply a shift of the day, still adhering to the pattern of work six days and rest one day.

18. The Old Testament Jewish Sabbath remembers the Egyptian bondage and redemption which is not abrogated by Christ.

19. God’s work and rest from creating is paralleled to Christ’s work and rest of redemption.

20. The New Testament Christian Sabbath recalls the works of Christ and looks forward to the eternal Sabbath soon to be consummated in heaven.

21. The Christian Sabbath is morally binding on every believer.

22. Works of necessity, mercy and piety are to accomplished on this day.

23. Objections taken from New Testament passages dealing with the Jewish ceremonial Law do not negate the Lord’s Day."
 
It has been helpful to me to reflect on the the 4th commandment in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, especially the different reasons annexed thereunto.

The principal of Sabbath, which was made for man, was appealed to in light of advances in redemptive history. So, there is at least an aspect of the Sabbath that is mutable - not the principal, though, of course. Obviously, the resurrection was the greatest advance in redemptive history. Do This and You Shall Live (sabbath at the end) replaced by Live and You Shall Do This (sabbath at the beginning).

Whether or not you think that the day could be change, well, at least I am convinced by the preponderance of evidence summarized by Grant above.
 
Been doing some studying and finding myself in the Sabbatarian camp, but came across an interesting counter-argument that I haven't seen addressed. There are some who might argue that the Sabbath was still on Saturday, but that the Lord's Day was a separate day we ought to observe and does not carry the full weight of the 4th Commandment. Essentially, how do we know for certain that the Lord's Day was the replacement of the Sabbath, especially when some early Christians celebrated both? Was Christ instituting a New Day to worship him but not to rest? How do we know one way or the other?

The Sabbath was always the Lord's day:

"...but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." (Ex. 20:10a)

"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable..." (Is. 58:13a)
 
I don't want to make too much of this point, but it is interesting that man's first full day after creation was God's seventh day after creating. In some ways, going back to the first day of the week is consistent with man's first experience with the Sabbath day prior to the fall.
 
I know, but the technical truth of the scriptures is that the Sabbath Day Israel observed never has changed, but we do now celebrate the Lord's day.
Moderator Note:

David,

We have been down this road before. Please explain yourself keeping the following in mind:
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/new-covenant-theology-vs-covenant-theology.94129/#post-1149030

See also:
https://purelypresbyterian.com/2018...-an-evaluation-of-romans-14-and-colossians-2/

At present you are on very shaky ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top