jckdymond55
Puritan Board Freshman
Looking for any examples of the early church that either out of necessity/lack of people or supported the one elder church model?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
True and completely agree (literally asking for a friend) he wanted an example and I know of none of the top of my head. my response was the same as yours when he asked me.Is it possible? Sure. But even if it were, it would merely be an exception to the rule laid out Scripture born out of necessity.
By the end of the middle of the 2nd century they would have called the single elder "the bishop" in the East and the "priest" in the West.
Jacob, who are you thinking about? Will you please provide a source?
Immediately, I think of Ignatius, who speaks of bishops AND presbyters rather than "single bishop."
"...being subject to the bishop and the presbytery..." (Ignatius to the Ephesians 2)
Jacob, who are you thinking about? Will you please provide a source?
Immediately, I think of Ignatius, who speaks of bishops AND presbyters rather than "single bishop."
"...being subject to the bishop and the presbytery..." (Ignatius to the Ephesians 2)
Are you able to tell us more about this extract, Psyche? How, exactly, did the bishop function in relation to the presbytery?
Ignatius's language is tricky, since bishop usually means "president of the Eucharist," or presiding elder of the Eucharist.
By the time of Irenaeus, though, it's common to speak of bishops of a church. Whether they were single elder or double elder is hard to determine. We have to avoid the mindset that there was a "monolithic" early church praxis on ecclesiology.
Jacob, would you please help me to understand where the phrase "president of the Eucharist" came from? I've only seen that used in modern Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican contexts. Even if it is older, since James/OP is asking about the early church and we are going back to the first couple of centuries, how does a later redefinition from anti-Presbyterian sources help a 1st-2nd century analysis? Am I missing something here?
I believe the Protestant understanding is usually that the bishop may have been "first among equals" alongside the presbyters.
Tertullian spoke of the "President" in sort of a "Pastor" role as well.
That makes me wonder if Paul had Timothy as the head of the Ephesus Church?In the book of Revelation the angels of the churches seem to be the pastors of those churches. The 7 angels of the 7 churches might be 7 pastors.
That makes me wonder if Paul had Timothy as the head of the Ephesus Church?
You are going to be hard pressed to find a single example of this in the early church. To be sure, the early church writer Jerome speaks of the rise for the necessity of a monarchical bishop (in contrast to a plurality of elders), but that is for a different reason than the one you've proposed. In spite of Jerome's testimony to this end, he maintained that (biblically speaking) the office of bishop and elder were essentially the same. I'm thinking about posting a separate thread that addresses this question to some extent.Looking for any examples of the early church that either out of necessity/lack of people or supported the one elder church model?
would like to read itYou are going to be hard pressed to find a single example of this in the early church. To be sure, the early church writer Jerome speaks of the rise for the necessity of a monarchical bishop (in contrast to a plurality of elders), but that is for a different reason than the one you're proposed. In spite of Jerome's testimony to this end, he maintained that (biblically speaking) the office of bishop and elder were essentially the same. I'm thinking about posting a separate thread that addresses this question to some extent.
would like to read it