Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
Originally posted by mangum
Originally posted by Pilgrim
WRT to the Lucianic recension that W&H alleged, see below quotes from Jerome (translator of the Vulgate) that appear to suggest that Lucian was responsible for a recension. But I don't know how this belief is widely held today even by CT or eclectic scholars. Perhaps Dr. White could weigh in here? I can find no mention of such a recension in his book. But you can find it in this response by the Lockman Foundation (producers of the NASB) to Riplinger's "New Age Bible Versions":
The Byzantine Text had its beginnings in Syria when a Bible scholar named Lucian who had studied at a famous theological school in Antioch revised the Greek Old and New Testaments from a collection of manuscripts available to him. That is, rather than copying one original manuscript, Lucian (perhaps with help from others) seems to have consulted several different manuscripts in the process of compiling a new one. This was probably done early in the fourth century (Lucian was martyred in 312). From there the manuscript was taken to Constantinople, where it was widely distributed throughout the Byzantine empire (thus the name "Byzantine" text). As time went on, thousands of copies were made and in fact 90 percent of the Greek New Testament manuscripts existing today are of this type. Almost all of them were produced after the sixth century within the Byzantine Empire, since by this time Greek was scarcely understood outside the Empire and Moslem conquests had greatly reduced the numbers of Christians beyond the Empire as well.
It is sometimes asked what evidence there really is that Lucian did such a revision. The most important direct evidence comes from the fourth-century church father Jerome, who makes several remarks about Lucian in his own works. In his Preface to the Four Gospels, Jerome criticizes Lucian and another scholar, Hesychius, for editing the Scripture. Later, in his preface to the books of Chronicles, Jerome remarks that from Constantinople to Antioch the Greek Old Testament of Lucian meets with approval. In another work written shortly after 392, Jerome praises Lucian and comments that Lucian worked so hard in the study of the Scriptures that even at that time some copies of the Scriptures still bear his name. In a letter written about 11 years later, Jerome tells two Bible students that there is one edition "...which Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, and all Greek commentators call koine--i.e. common--and widespread, and is now called 'Lucianic' by most people." http://www.kjvonly.org/other/riplinger_lockman.htm
[Edited on 7-3-2006 by Pilgrim]
After reading the Lockman article, it appears they believe the CT is superior due to its earlier dating and many copies that agree with one another.
I still am unsure of why KJV only people believe the earlier manuscripts (CT) are perverse and the later TR is pure and superior. Is the main argument that there are more copies of the TR?
TR and Majority (Byzantine) Text advocates say that Vaticanus and Sinaiticus often disagree with each other. As Rev. Winzer noted earlier, what side you come down on largely depends on certain assumptions that need to be tested. And after several years of studying this as a layman I'm still basically on the fence. (If I was fully satisfied by the CT/eclectic arguments I wouldn't be on the fence, and ad hominem arguments and continuing to disseminate false information by many KJVO/TR advocates isn't helpful either).
I think you can say that the main argument of the TR as well as MT advocates is that the church used the Byzantine texts for centuries. The idea of providential preservation comes into play as well, especially for TR advocates. These arguments hold some weight for me. I have not been convinced that the older texts are heretical or gnostic.
Bible Researcher is an excellent site by a Reformed believer that has tons of information. He is a CT advocate, but has a lot of differing opinions represented and linked there as well. He also has a Yahoo group, and I've posted a message looking to get some answers on the alleged Lucianic recension.