The Beard - Symbol of manhood and token of the superior nature?
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joeholland
Puritan Board Freshman
I agree with Lane.
In posting the quotes from Clement early this morning I was doing so in jest. We could pull up other pro-beard verses from men like Spurgeon and others that would be equally humorous based solely on the difference in societal norms.
If you're really worked up about it, I suggest you go read the entire chapter from which the quotes come. You can find it in volume 2 of ANF in chapter three book three of The Instructor. Celement is, as Lane suggests, arguing mainly against the confusion of gender roles and secondarily against lavish living that carried with it effeminate overtones. You'd be surprised at how much he actually does quote Scripture and not just the ceremonial law.
Surely no one would argue with the importance of gender roles. We are simply left with the unassailable fact that God has given each gender biological distinctions to remind us that gender roles are important. The beard just happens to be one of the more prominent options for men whether it is utilized or not.
For more info on the history of beards and how World War I changed the American perception of beards, see this article.
In posting the quotes from Clement early this morning I was doing so in jest. We could pull up other pro-beard verses from men like Spurgeon and others that would be equally humorous based solely on the difference in societal norms.
If you're really worked up about it, I suggest you go read the entire chapter from which the quotes come. You can find it in volume 2 of ANF in chapter three book three of The Instructor. Celement is, as Lane suggests, arguing mainly against the confusion of gender roles and secondarily against lavish living that carried with it effeminate overtones. You'd be surprised at how much he actually does quote Scripture and not just the ceremonial law.
Surely no one would argue with the importance of gender roles. We are simply left with the unassailable fact that God has given each gender biological distinctions to remind us that gender roles are important. The beard just happens to be one of the more prominent options for men whether it is utilized or not.
For more info on the history of beards and how World War I changed the American perception of beards, see this article.
JOwen
Puritan Board Junior
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
So, what would clement do with this? 
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DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
I thought the true test of manhood was how many kids you have.
Father of 9.
Pastor Jerrold,
Excuse meeeeee. But, based on the best critical and exegetical study of Psa 127:5, it has been determined that you are over the quiver quota limit for "arrows." You have been advised by the magisterium of Calvinistic PooBahs to either pay your annual Exceeding the Approved Quiver Quota Surcharge or . . . throw one of them back. Personally, I would suggest the hairy white one on the far right.
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JOwen
Puritan Board Junior
I thought the true test of manhood was how many kids you have.
Father of 9.
Pastor Jerrold,
Excuse meeeeee. But, based on the best critical and exegetical study of Psa 127:5, it has been determined that you are over the quiver quota limit for "arrows." You have been advised by the magisterium of Calvinistic PooPahs to either pay your annual Exceeding the Approved Quiver Quota Surcharge or . . . throw one of them back. Personally, I would suggest the hairy white one on the far right.
ROFL
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Delmar O'Donnell: Care for some gopher?
Ulysses Everett McGill: No thank you, Delmar. One third of a gopher would only arouse my appetite without bedding it down.
Delmar O'Donnell: Oh, you can have the whole thing. Me and Pete already had one apiece. We ran across a whole... gopher village.
Back on topic . . . I agree with Lane that the point was that men and women should dress differently and appear as members of their own sex. The issue of the bearded lady, while tragic, does not impact the topic under consideration. There are all sorts of genetic deformities and anomalies (from our perspective) that occur in our fallen world. The ratio of estrogen cascading over the fetus, for example, can have profound effects on the development in utero. But, none of that impringes upon how God designed men and women to be or how we are to behave in this fallen world.
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Coram Deo
Puritan Board Junior
joeholland
Puritan Board Freshman
I'll add one from Spurgeon because I know exactly where to find the reference. I'll see if I can come up with others.
Excuse the length of the quote. I want to include enough so that you would see some the similarities with Clement. In discussing laryngitis and other throat ailments that preachers face, Spurgeon suggests,
Excuse the length of the quote. I want to include enough so that you would see some the similarities with Clement. In discussing laryngitis and other throat ailments that preachers face, Spurgeon suggests,
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
In addition to Joe's great quote, here are some for fun.
At 34 years of age was he sacrificed for our sins; he was then hale and strong, although his body may have been emaciated by suffering, and his face more marred than that of any other man yet was he then in the perfection of manhood. Methinks I see him then. His goodly beard flowing down upon his breast, I see him with his eyes full of genius, his form erect, his mien majestic, his energy entire, his whole frame in full development,-a real man, a magnificent man-fairer than the sons of men, a lamb not only without blemish, but with his powers fully brought out. Such was Jesus Christ--a Lamb of the first year-not a boy, not a lad, not a young man, but a full man, that he might give his soul unto us.
Spurgeon, C. H. (1998). Vol. 2: Spurgeon's Sermons: Volume 2.
You cannot measure a man’s grace by the length of his beard, nor by the number of his years.
Spurgeon, C. H. (1998). Vol. 41: Spurgeon's Sermons: Volume 41 .
One of the old Puritans said that some men are born with beards; and, certainly, there are some believers who, almost as soon as they are converted, seem to take great strides, and to make speedy advances, so that they soon become very useful, and are able even to teach things which others only learn after long years of experience.
Spurgeon, C. H. (1998). Vol. 44: Spurgeon's Sermons: Volume 44 .
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Yep, one of my friends was an ATI kid and she informed me of this.
I don't have a lot of glory left, but I am getting more and more beauty everyday.
Since we are commanded to do all things for the glory of God, I actually think this is a good topic to think about. And the question should not be, "Why should I grow a beard?" because I don't have a choice about that. The question should be, "Why should I shave?"
Perhaps men have perfectly legitimate reasons for shaving, but since the Bible does say something about it, it is a question worth asking.
BTW, how do we come to conclude that the Levitical law against 'marring' the beard was ceremonial? Not arguing, just curious.
I don't disagree, but am asking why.
And even if it is ceremonial, is there any general equity therein?
Coram Deo
Puritan Board Junior
If a man cannot grow a beard?
Providentially Hindered?
What of the rounding off of the hair?
I knew the Amish had to be right about something...
Providentially Hindered?
What of the rounding off of the hair?
I knew the Amish had to be right about something...
So, your saying that the beard law cannot be a 'moral' law because some, due to providence, cannot abide by it?
But if a man cannot grow a beard then he cannot break this law. Only men who have been given facial hair by God are capable of breaking this law. Therefore, your reason does not seem to explain why it is considered a 'ceremonial' law.
I'm sorry, Pastor Klein. My post was unclear.
I shouldn't have put that quip there. My main reasoning for it not being a ceremonial law is how can the literal understanding of the bear admonitions in Leviticus 19 be extrapolated from the Moral Law.
That I don't know, other than the 'general equity' which you mentioned earlier.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
I could so see this with you
I always wanted a beard like these guys:
... and the hat and sunglasses ...
Augusta
Puritan Board Doctor
Yeah, you said "Father of 9." The hairy one on the far right doesn't count.
I thought the true test of manhood was how many kids you have.
Father of 9.
Pastor Jerrold,
Excuse meeeeee. But, based on the best critical and exegetical study of Psa 127:5, it has been determined that you are over the quiver quota limit for "arrows." You have been advised by the magisterium of Calvinistic PooPahs to either pay your annual Exceeding the Approved Quiver Quota Surcharge or . . . throw one of them back. Personally, I would suggest the hairy white one on the far right.
ROFL
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
I have friends who have argued stuff like this before. Some of them are heavy into picking apart Scripture to figure out the End Times. Others focus specifically on the gifts of the Spirit so they can look spiritual. In fact my son Joshua Caleb and I just studied the tounges issue because some of his friends are pentecostal. I taught him that inward holiness should be his pursuit instead of seeking for spiritual Gifts. I agree with something that Robert Murray M'Cheyne said, "What my people need is my holiness."
I have seen so many guys get off track on outward appearances and studying things that really don't promote holiness of character that it burdens me. If you are in sin because you don't have a beard grow one and start working on inward holiness. That is a battle that is much more noble in God's sight as far as I see it. BTW, I don't believe my beard has ever personally promoted any holiness of character in my person. In fact it has been more of a vanity issue saying notice me.
Just my 2 cents.
I have seen so many guys get off track on outward appearances and studying things that really don't promote holiness of character that it burdens me. If you are in sin because you don't have a beard grow one and start working on inward holiness. That is a battle that is much more noble in God's sight as far as I see it. BTW, I don't believe my beard has ever personally promoted any holiness of character in my person. In fact it has been more of a vanity issue saying notice me.
Just my 2 cents.
Is the beard law ceremonial because there is no penalty attached to it?
It is not my intention to argue. I just am not satisfied with the statement made by some when they say, "Obviously...clearly...we all know...that the beard law is ceremonial and therefore is meaningless to us today."
I don't know if the beard promotes holiness or not, but is it possible that there is some wisdom in the law?
Following the dietary laws do not promote holiness but many believe there is wisdom in them.
It is warmer in the cooler seasons. And warmth is good during that time. And my beard has never been an issue for me during the summer months as it is for some.
If you ride a bike a long beard feels really neat rubbing your neck. But it forms into a weird bird's nest looking thing when you get off of your bike. Definitely take a comb or brush with you if you do ride a motorcycle. LOL
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Martin, with your Dabneyesque look, a bird's nest would be the least of your possibilites. You could play hide-n-seek in that thing, not to mention using it as a really cool place to hide snacks.
I do retrieve seconds from it sometimes.
Just to really chime in on the beard issue, I would have to say it would have to be more of a moral law (separation and distinction of the sexes) than a ceremonial law. But it wouldn't be a major issue if you paralleled the issue with long hair as Paul mentions in the following passage.
(1Co 11:14) Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
(1Co 11:15) But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
(1Co 11:16) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
Maybe that is out on a limb. But this passage is about hair and the sexes.
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