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So would you say then that any symbolic imagery of doves in Christian art is idolatry?
There's a secular French lady who's a customer of mine who wears one. The Maltese Cross, the Dove, and what's technically only supposed to be worn during times of persecution, a pearl hanging from the dove. If Christ is the Pearl of Great Price, then should all those ladies in church wear pearls?
I think it's a major cool cultural statement which honors our faith. It's true the nowadays most who wear it probably don't really honor it properly, but it's not the symbol's fault.
There may be OT examples in the Phylactery. And maybe not. But really, just think about it. A guy eats pork, shaves his beard, etc...etc...but puts his foot down and says a Huguenot Cross is wrong based on something in the OT?
Does anyone else see a contradiction it this?
5. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;
The ten words are moral law and binding.
"the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind..."
My family and I visited a PCA church that had a large stain glass window with a cross on the wall behind the pulpit. Since the Lord has brought me to the reformed faith I have stayed away from all depicitons of Christ, doves, crosses, etc..... What do yall think of crosses in reformed churches and what positive purpose would they serve?
The ten words are moral law and binding.
And most of us here have a view of these laws that is either more or less expanded. I remember in my first Reformed church a young woman who was the most godly I'd ever met had a pearl ring that she wore to remind her that Christ was the pearl of great price. And it's exactly the same thing with the HC, at least those versions with the pearl. A pearl, cross, dove, bush, grape vine, the Greek spelling of fish, a Bible logo on the family van etc...all represent Christ, but aren't necessarily graven images of God.
Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counselling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshipping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them, all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.
My family and I visited a PCA church that had a large stain glass window with a cross on the wall behind the pulpit. Since the Lord has brought me to the reformed faith I have stayed away from all depicitons of Christ, doves, crosses, etc..... What do yall think of crosses in reformed churches and what positive purpose would they serve?
I can understand the problem with a crucifix, but why would a cross present an obstacle?
My family and I visited a PCA church that had a large stain glass window with a cross on the wall behind the pulpit. Since the Lord has brought me to the reformed faith I have stayed away from all depicitons of Christ, doves, crosses, etc..... What do yall think of crosses in reformed churches and what positive purpose would they serve?
My family and I visited a PCA church that had a large stain glass window with a cross on the wall behind the pulpit. Since the Lord has brought me to the reformed faith I have stayed away from all depicitons of Christ, doves, crosses, etc..... What do yall think of crosses in reformed churches and what positive purpose would they serve?
Our building had one of those when we bought the facility. It was removed from the room when the structure underwent a major renovation.
Were members worshipping the cross? A cross reminds me of the crucifixion, which is usually positive in worship.
Were members worshipping the cross? A cross reminds me of the crucifixion, which is usually positive in worship.
It might not be wrong ... a cross is not a depiction of God or any of the three persons of the trinity. But it could easily become an idol. The gold serpent had to be destroyed because the people started worshipping it. Do you really think we (the people of this day) any different morally than the people of that day?
It could be okay, but if it starts to be a problem, how do you determine when to take it down? If people would feel a sense of loss at it being removed, they are very close to attaching to it the reverence reserved for God alone. I personally feel it would certainly be like the golden snake.
Were members worshipping the cross? A cross reminds me of the crucifixion, which is usually positive in worship.
It might not be wrong ... a cross is not a depiction of God or any of the three persons of the trinity. But it could easily become an idol. The gold serpent had to be destroyed because the people started worshipping it. Do you really think we (the people of this day) any different morally than the people of that day?
It could be okay, but if it starts to be a problem, how do you determine when to take it down? If people would feel a sense of loss at it being removed, they are very close to attaching to it the reverence reserved for God alone. I personally feel it would certainly be like the golden snake.
With Dennis here.
[a first for me]
Were members worshipping the cross? A cross reminds me of the crucifixion, which is usually positive in worship.
It might not be wrong ... a cross is not a depiction of God or any of the three persons of the trinity. But it could easily become an idol. The gold serpent had to be destroyed because the people started worshipping it. Do you really think we (the people of this day) any different morally than the people of that day?
It could be okay, but if it starts to be a problem, how do you determine when to take it down? If people would feel a sense of loss at it being removed, they are very close to attaching to it the reverence reserved for God alone. I personally feel it would certainly be like the golden snake.
The point is that there is a huge difference between saying that a thing could, if misused, have negative side affects, and saying that the mere construction of the object is idolatrous, which has been suggested. Take your own example: the serpent had to be destroyed because the people were worshipping it, but their misuse does not negative the positive purpose for which the staff was constructed.
The members of this board generally understand this concept when it comes to things like alcohol and (for some) tobacco.
Were members worshipping the cross? A cross reminds me of the crucifixion, which is usually positive in worship.
If the dove is used to portray a person in the Trinity then it would be idolatry.
The burning bush has never portrayed a person in the Trinity as far as i know... It was a theophany.