Was Adam indwelt by the Holy Spirit pre-Fall?

Status
Not open for further replies.
CMM,
Your position could still stand upon the truth, but the use to which you are putting Eph.5:9 is spurious.

We're not free to apply Paul's use of his term "all" beyond the scope of his discourse. Does Paul have in mind the kind of universal inclusion (by his use of "all") that reaches backward and forward, from the primordial Garden into the future state? You have to interpret his meaning within his audience' frame of reference.

I'm not convinced that what Paul intends to teach here is that the Spirit--from all and to all eternity--is the sole active energetic producer indwelling all creation for goodness, righteousness, and truth (for surely, this even further totalizes the expression; why stop with mankind?). If so, we seem to be heading for panenthiesm.

Contrasted in the passage are the "unfruitful works of darkness," v11, with the fruit of v9. God's people are to "walk as children of light," v8, recognizing that such conversation is in any/every/all aspect of their experience as believers an effect of God in his light (by his Spirit). Another gloss for the word "all" in the verse could well be, "the fruit of the Spirit consists ONLY of goodness righteousness and truth," "all" here being adjectival of the entirety of that which he produces, i.e. "nothing but."

Consider: the angels are righteous, produce good, speak truth, and are not Spirit-indwelt. The simple creation is (was made) good, animals behave themselves, but none is indwelt. Objective fact is truth, but it is not Spirit and divine.

What would be the effect of a Spirit-indwelt, unfallen Adam? What is the gain? What is he able to do that is not possible if he is not under the direction of the Spirit? Is this the claim: that the indwelling of Christ proves that Adam was also (prior to sinning) indwelt by the Spirit? That would be an invalid conclusion, because Christ came "in the likeness of sinful flesh," Rom.8:3.

Jesus acting (in one sense) in dependence upon the Spirit reflects the coming-back of man under the reign of God--as Israel, rebelled under Saul/man, came back under God's reign through David. The Spirit's generative act in Mary's womb means that there was never an instant in Jesus' life, clothed as he was in our corrupt flesh, when the life-giving Spirit was not answering and overcoming that corruption. Indwelling was required for Christ from conception to overthrow the works of the devil. It still comes through as a post-fall condition.
Not trying to derail the thread here, but when you say Jesus came as in our corrupted flesh, was He not though not corrupted/tainted by the fall, via the Virgin Birth, so was human, but not sin natured as all others of us have been born as since Adam?
 
I was considering it as 1) fruit of the Spirit, of which any goodness, righteousness and truth is in estimation of God's character (i.e. his attributes as foundational) in contrast to fleshly and fallen works of darkness, where good fruit is accomplished only by the Spirit, (which both Adam and Christ could have done), and 2) as a result of Eph. 5:1, the context, being imitators of God as dear children, as Adam would have in his innocent state, and Christ properly as the Son in whom God is well pleased.

It couldn't have anything to do with panentheism of any kind.

I dont think we can take goodness, righteousness and truth out of the context of being imitators of God as dear children, not any righteous works, of any kind, out of the hands of the Spirit. Which, in my estimation would contradict Paul here, and Galatians 5.

If one is uncomfortable in saying that Adam was not indwelt, and yet Christ was, which would seem inconsistent, for nowhere does Scripture say "Jesus was indwelt" but only given the Spirit without measure, then, comfortably say, "Adam was upheld" (following Perkins' explanation) which, at any rate, offers the same conclusion but with an air of mystery about it in relation to Adam...whatever "upheld" might mean (which would also apply to the angels in which God "upheld" in a state of innocence). For, in thinking about how indwelling, unction, anointing, etc., run synonymous in many ways, we must at least not say that Adam was left to himself to do anything righteously. For, when he was left to himself, as Perkins wells explains in his Golden Chain, Adam was "let go" by the Spirit and fell like a staff to the ground when he was left to himself.

Adam lost the Spirit in the fall who "upheld" him for a certain length of time, and now, through Christ, the covenant of redemption works to gain back all those blessed effects, and much more in Christ, of that Spirit by his indwelling, through intercession of the Great High Priest now exalted, dare I say, again, through the faithful covenant work of the second Adam. Paradise lost, and then paradise regained, but much better.

(Consider as a side note, the Spirit's work in "upholding" the angels is quite effective and assurefly powerful, in that, those angels "upheld" by God do not fall, nor ever will.)
Adam was created in spiritual harmony with his maker, so until he sinned, why would he need to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, since he was already in a right relationship with and obeying God?
 
Not trying to derail the thread here, but when you say Jesus came as in our corrupted flesh, was He not though not corrupted/tainted by the fall, via the Virgin Birth, so was human, but not sin natured as all others of us have been born as since Adam?
Rom.8:3, God sent the Son "in the likeness of sinful flesh." He came clothed (so to speak) in exactly the same human flesh that you have. It was naturally affected, but not morally affected, by the effects of the fall. If it wasn't naturally affected, then conceivably Jesus mightn't have expired when his murder was attempted. He could conceivably have been "comic-book-superhero-Jesus."

"Life" is actually independent of the "bodily systems" that sustain it in our flesh. Take an unfallen sinless man, wreck his uncorrupted body, and he's not dead. Carve it up, burn it, atomize it, he's still not dead. If God gave him his body back whole again, he still never died (as we understand death's fundamental) even while he lacked his animated body. Jesus, however, DIED. He did so because he had a real, human post-fall body (not yet glorified). He also bore in it the awful wrath of God, holy judgment against moral indecency (not his own).

Men born of ordinary generation are dead by nature--spiritually they are dead in sin (morally defective), and corruption dwells in their flesh, bred in the bone. A vigorous, healthy baby already (in a sense) has the smell of his death with him. He is naturally defective, born to trouble as sparks fly upward; inevitable decay is only delayed. Jesus was impeccable morally, not (strictly) because of his Virgin birth, but because of who he is in himself--a sinless Person. He had existence beforehand, and was already Righteous. He could not sin, and thank God he couldn't, for then he wouldn't. But he still had the very likeness of our sinful (corrupt) flesh.

The Virgin birth--more precisely the divine conception by the Holy Spirit--was the means by which the Savior's entrance was preserved from any corrupting taint of sin upon his human flesh, acquired as it was from his (sinful) mother. The powerful control of the Holy Spirit being constantly on guard (comparable to his labor in Gen1:2) completely negated the innate corruption that belongs to us (humans) by nature on account of sin. Death had no power, no claim on Jesus, never. But still, he could die because the human nature he bore was susceptible to death, irrespective of his moral perfection.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top