American Thanksgiving a Pretended Holy Day? What is it?

Well, if any of you curmudgeons don't want your Thanksgiving meals, I'll take 'em.

And that goes for your Christmas presents, too, in December (although I don't know how many neckties and new underwear I actually need).

I'm not sure if an argument like this doesn't do away with all holidays. The Scots celebrated the first of the year, etc., but surely no such day for a Christian should be unmarked by some kind of appropriate use, which I think was M'Crie's argument. I think a point could be made that an annual thanksgiving for the good things received should always be subservient to dark providences calling more appropriately for fasting. In the big picture, we have enough problems getting anything like a micro minority to agree there are problems observing the old idol days of Rome. When we win that war, maybe this skirmish could rise to some level of importance. I simply don't see it as anything like a top tier problem that needs addressing on a coporate level.

The REAL travesty of Thanksgiving is the cranberry sauce in a can that goes Swooosh...PLOP as it falls free as it falls into your plate.

Pergamum said:

The REAL travesty of Thanksgiving is the cranberry sauce in a can that goes Swooosh...PLOP as it falls free as it falls into your plate.

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Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder on this matter. I love canned cranberry sauce.

Hey have y’all heard about KFC’s new cranberry sauce chicken sandwich (totally joking).

Afterthought said:

The potential problem doesn't arrive from additional times of worship but from recurrence and the reasons given for recurrence. Things like prayer meetings have no fixed date except by prudence, and the whole day is not dedicated to some religious object but only a part of the day is dedicated to the prayer meeting.

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The election day and commencement observances were annual. They appear to have been observed in the new world colonies, but I can't speak to their acceptance in Great Britain itself.

Pergamum said:

The REAL travesty of Thanksgiving is the cranberry sauce in a can that goes Swooosh...PLOP as it falls free as it falls into your plate.

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You are so right! Fake cranberry sauce is icky and it bleeds into your mashed potatoes.

My problem with the USA's Thanksgiving is that we are a nation who now (mostly) denies God. As a NATIONAL celebration, it seems highly hypocritical for our increasingly wicked nation. I don't want any part of that.

That being said of course we, as God's people, give thanks always. And having meals with fellow brother and sisters is always a lovely thing. Doing that on a Thursday in November is fine and dandy, if you want.

But I would be pretty careful to separate THAT from Caesar's proclamation.

I guess I'll chime in on our observance of this.

First, I enjoy the day off. My wife and I join the prosecutor and some of his staff in serving a big festive meal to the local inmates.

The jail personnel like it because everyone goes to sleep for the afternoon.

Then my wife and I usually go out in the boat to look for steelhead, bringing along a box lunch or thermos of soup.

Always I find myself thankful for such experiences.

VictorBravo said:

My wife and I join the prosecutor and some of his staff in serving a big festive meal to the local inmates.

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So, the guy who successfully prosecuted the inmates shows up to serve those same inmates. I wonder how many of the inmates consider this to be "rubbing it in?"

Maybe it's different in the US, but a lot of churches in Canada have a "Thanksgiving Sunday" service before Thanksgiving Day proper (on the Monday). You'll find song choices reflecting the theme, and sermons will often be preached on the subject of giving thanks. In effect it is an addition to the liturgical calendar.

While I believe that anyone can celebrate any day they want that doesn't impinge on the Lord's Day, it is sadly the case that the holiday in question interferes with and derails the ordinary Sunday worship. My church used to cancel a Sunday prayer meeting to do a "Thanksgiving service" that was completely outside of the RPW. A church I went to long ago did a candle thing (sadly, that wasn't their worst offense, but that's water under the bridge). So I approach it the same way as all other uncommanded holidays: do it if you want, but don't try to make it a Christian duty, and don't alter the ordinary Lord's Day activities for the sake of it. Sometimes our pastor has indulged in a "Mother's Day" message, though not so much of late, but he always acknowledges it from the pulpit, which I find unconscionable.
As for it's being good that the whole country should give thanks--isn't it abominable that all these people who reject God and His Christ the rest of the year, and live in flagrant sin with a high hand, should suddenly decide to "be thankful" one solitary day, but there is no talk of repentance, no mourning for sin, no acknowledgement that God requires more than a backhanded, vague, thankful feeling one day a year? God told the Israelites that He hated their feasts and new moons and such, and it was because they only kept them to throw Him a bone, as it were, not because their hearts were after Him. And so I hate the open hypocrisy that the day has become.

Tom Hart said:

Maybe it's different in the US, but a lot of churches in Canada have a "Thanksgiving Sunday" service before Thanksgiving Day proper (on the Monday). You'll find song choices reflecting the theme, and sermons will often be preached on the subject of giving thanks. In effect it is an addition to the liturgical calendar.

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What would you think if this service was done on a Monday? Would you still view it as an addition to the liturgical calendar?

bookslover said:

So, the guy who successfully prosecuted the inmates shows up to serve those same inmates. I wonder how many of the inmates consider this to be "rubbing it in?"

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The ones he successfully prosecutes are not in the local jail.

The inmates all have told me they like the dinner. Even those who absolutely despise the prosecutor give him a nod for the gesture.

I've never sensed anyone feeling "rubbed in."

Afterthought said:

What would you think if this service was done on a Monday? Would you still view it as an addition to the liturgical calendar?

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Not necessarily. It depends. However, such an event could have the tendency to become such. Care would need to be taken that the Thanksgiving "service" (if it should even be called that) would not eclipse Lord's Day worship (for instance, as Christmas Eve services do).

Something like a fellowship meal with prayer and psalm-singing would seem to me quite appropriate.

The American Thanksgiving Day is technically not recurrent. A few days prior to the fourth Thursday in each November, it has become customary for the sitting President to "proclaim" a national day of thanksgiving; but he is under no legal requirement nor moral obligation to do so. Were a President to determine that the providential circumstances of the nation called for a day of fasting instead of thanksgiving, he would be free to proclaim that instead of, or in addition to, the customary day of thanksgiving. The holiday is "civil" in the sense that a high civil official proclaims it, but he thereby neither holds, nor pretends to exercise, coercive authority over the Church. The operative verb in the most recent proclamation (penultimate paragraph) is "encourage" the citizenry to take certain actions and to adopt certain attitudes (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-thanksgiving-day-2018/).

CovenantWord said:

The American Thanksgiving Day is technically not recurrent.

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I did not realize that this was still done. That definitely changes the moral calculus. However, it still leaves the question as to whether it is in fact a "day of thanksgiving" as in the Directory for Public worship. Were "days of thanksgiving" in the Directory intended to be optional days that the people were encouraged to observe in a religious and holy manner? The language used in the above article suggests that Thanksgiving day is intended to be a "day of thanksgiving" that is supposed to be observed in a religious and holy way (though the language of the article is obviously weaker).

Hi Steven, please fix your signature so folks know how to address; see how in the link in mine.

CovenantWord said:

The American Thanksgiving Day is technically not recurrent. A few days prior to the fourth Thursday in each November, it has become customary for the sitting President to "proclaim" a national day of thanksgiving; but he is under no legal requirement nor moral obligation to do so. Were a President to determine that the providential circumstances of the nation called for a day of fasting instead of thanksgiving, he would be free to proclaim that instead of, or in addition to, the customary day of thanksgiving. The holiday is "civil" in the sense that a high civil official proclaims it, but he thereby neither holds, nor pretends to exercise, coercive authority over the Church. The operative verb in the most recent proclamation (penultimate paragraph) is "encourage" the citizenry to take certain actions and to adopt certain attitudes (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-thanksgiving-day-2018/).

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CovenantWord said:

The American Thanksgiving Day is technically not recurrent. A few days prior to the fourth Thursday in each November, it has become customary for the sitting President to "proclaim" a national day of thanksgiving; but he is under no legal requirement nor moral obligation to do so. Were a President to determine that the providential circumstances of the nation called for a day of fasting instead of thanksgiving, he would be free to proclaim that instead of, or in addition to, the customary day of thanksgiving. The holiday is "civil" in the sense that a high civil official proclaims it, but he thereby neither holds, nor pretends to exercise, coercive authority over the Church. The operative verb in the most recent proclamation (penultimate paragraph) is "encourage" the citizenry to take certain actions and to adopt certain attitudes (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-thanksgiving-day-2018/).

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Particularly this section you referenced is interesting in light of the thread: "NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 22, 2018, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship, to offer a prayer of thanks to God for our many blessings."

Wikipedia is what it is, but note what it says about a law that ordains a day for the POTUS to make his declaration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)#1942_to_present
Puts us back to the original motion. Leaves it somewhat ambiguous, in my opinion, as to whether this is only a cultural habit, and the mere choice of the head of state, albeit a consistent one.

Pastor Buchanan: I stand corrected. Thanksgiving Day is a federal holiday, established by law. (https://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/thanksgiving). Thank you. I suppose, then, that the ceremonial presidential proclamation is an historical artifact.

I believe TG was instituted by Abraham Lincoln not God so......anyway, I love TG! I and my family make a killer TG meal that would leave you all thanking someone for one of the meals you've ever had .

Pergamum said:

Regulative Principle don't apply to a national holiday on a Thursday.

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It applies to anything which could be classed as worship. As has been stated: to whom is the thanks being given? In what manner? Are we doing so in a appropriate manner?

I don't see a problem with a national holiday commemorating the gracious Providence of God in granting freedom and a bountiful land to the Pilgrims, marked by (appropriate) private family festivities. The moment it takes on a religious nature (if there is specific worship held in the home, or public worship services) then the RPW comes into play.

alexandermsmith said:

It applies to anything which could be classed as worship. As has been stated: to whom is the thanks being given? In what manner? Are we doing so in a appropriate manner?

I don't see a problem with a national holiday commemorating the gracious Providence of God in granting freedom and a bountiful land to the Pilgrims, marked by (appropriate) private family festivities. The moment it takes on a religious nature (if there is specific worship held in the home, or public worship services) then the RPW comes into play.

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Again, very weird when Arbor Day gets a free pass but a holiday dedicated to being thankful gets condemned as anti-RPW. As long as it is secular, it is okay....but don't dare thank God.

Pergamum said:

Again, very weird when Arbor Day gets a free pass but a holiday dedicated to being thankful gets condemned as anti-RPW. As long as it is secular, it is okay....but don't dare thank God.

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Does Arbor Day involve religious services?

Pergamum said:

Again, very weird when Arbor Day gets a free pass but a holiday dedicated to being thankful gets condemned as anti-RPW.

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I probably wouldn't give it a pass, if I knew what it was. Does it have to do with trees?
Earth Day certainly doesn't get a pass.