Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
When we say “Perfect your baptism”, to our covenant children, practically speaking, what exactly are u expecting your child to do in response to the charge?
“Perfect your baptism!”
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earl40
Puritan Board Professor
Act as a Christian should.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
How can one truly ask their child to 'perfect their baptism' if they remain in the flesh?
Is this an alternative way of saying “improve your baptism”? (WLC q. 167).
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Jerri,
It is. However, the typical is to 'improve' upon, as u pointed out. Can an unregenerate child improve or perfect their baptism?
It is. However, the typical is to 'improve' upon, as u pointed out. Can an unregenerate child improve or perfect their baptism?
I think we’d be asking a covenant child to build upon what was given them in baptism (God’s promise) by pursuing that holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Possibly there’s a difference between the 17th-18th century concept of ‘improving’ upon something that is already given, and how we might presently think of “perfecting” something.
An unregenerate child couldn’t do this in a spiritual way that pleases God, of course, but perhaps might seek to behave in a way that comports. The exhortation would be given to all covenant children indiscriminately, since the hope is that they’re spiritually able to do it.
An unregenerate child couldn’t do this in a spiritual way that pleases God, of course, but perhaps might seek to behave in a way that comports. The exhortation would be given to all covenant children indiscriminately, since the hope is that they’re spiritually able to do it.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
How can we expect the child to 'pursue' holiness if they are unregenerate?
I see you addressed that point.
Would u agree that in essence, to ask out child to 'improve' or perfect their baptism, we are presuming upon regeneration?
I think so- you know far more about this than I, as you’ve touched on it in posts and I’m a novice, but I’m currently reading the Lewis Schenck book about children in the covenant, mentioned by Cymro a few weeks ago. The presumption of regeneration was a doctrine unfamiliar to me until it was mentioned here on the PB. I’m still trying to grasp it in a way, but I think your point probably is that the Catechism is presuming regeneration in covenant children? And how do passages like Ephesians 6:1 fit in with this?
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Jeri,
U may find Poole and Henry helpful on Eph 1. I don't believe the command to 'obey your parents in the Lord' to rail against my point.
U may find Poole and Henry helpful on Eph 1. I don't believe the command to 'obey your parents in the Lord' to rail against my point.
Yes, my question was really rhetorical, I phrased it weirdly. I’m on board with what you’re getting at, assuming the point of the OP is that the Standards assume presumptive regeneration.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Andrew,
I get that. However, firstly, how can an unregenerate child, believe' in any promise of God and lastly, how can a parent hold any child to this without presuming they are regenerate?
Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
.
They can’t improve upon their baptism, but that doesn’t mean it is not therefore required of them. The parent ought to be holding this to their child, pleading the believe the Gospel for their life. The parent can do this because there are Gospel blessings guaranteed (if one believes) and curses (if one doesn’t believe).
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Agreed. But isn't it a bit presumptuous to tell them to 'improve' if one is not presuming?
They need to have the Lord save them by His grace and mercy, as that would complete the Baptism.
BGF
Puritan Board Sophomore
I don't presume my children are regenerate. I presume God is faithful.
BGF
Puritan Board Sophomore
To save his elect.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Hey Brett,
That doesn't really answer my question though....
That doesn't really answer my question though....
BGF
Puritan Board Sophomore
You're right, it doesn't. I'm denying the need, or ability even, to hold my child to improving his or her baptism as if he or she had the power to do so. Salvation is of the LORD, and sanctification by His Spirit. I teach, exhort, admonish, and discipline my child but it is the LORD who accomplishes his purpose.
Now as to the OP. JG Vos, in his commentary on the Larger Catechism, deals with this question as it relates to Q 167.
It's interesting that in treating improving baptism as it relates to infants, Vos points us to the efficacy of baptism and how it is not necessarily tied to the moment of administration. This is treated in the Westminster Confession of Faith Ch. 28-6.
There is no need to presume anything about my child. baptism can be improved on regardless. If unregenerate and unrepentant, improve upon it by repenting. If regenerate and repentant, improve upon it in the ways outlined in the LC.
My cat agrees one should purrrfect ones Baptism. Like other cats she prefers a sprinkling. She disagrees with a dogs preference of a full immersion. Further, she believes that the Baptist conviction not to baptise children of believers is a cat-astrophic view 
BGF
Puritan Board Sophomore
I should have linked or posted the WCF reference above. That will give you my answer. Here it is below.
Ben Mordecai
Puritan Board Freshman
Baptism is a sign of and seal of the righteousness received by faith. Therefore, the covenant child has a responsibility to join that covenant promise with a personal faith as we should rightly expect of any person whom God has called into his visible community. Likewise, anyone who is exhibits a personal faith receives the whole Christ in both his justifying and sanctifying gifts. The justifying at the instant of faith, and the sanctifying in an ongoing fashion as the believer grows through the use of the means by the Spirit to mortify the flesh and vivify the spiritual man.
I could be wrong, but I would not consider "improving" or "perfecting" ones baptism to be appropriate language to describe works of obedience. It implies that our salvation is improved by works, implying our own additions to our salvation.
If someone said, "improve your baptism" to a covenant child I would assume they meant to express personal faith that Jesus is their own savior. However, I think it's probably not useful to use this terminology at all since it would require so much unpacking that you could teach a covenant child more directly by just teaching what you would have unpacked.
We, of course, should teach covenant children (and all children) God's law for their instruction and conviction, but I would not tie this to their baptisms.
I could be wrong, but I would not consider "improving" or "perfecting" ones baptism to be appropriate language to describe works of obedience. It implies that our salvation is improved by works, implying our own additions to our salvation.
If someone said, "improve your baptism" to a covenant child I would assume they meant to express personal faith that Jesus is their own savior. However, I think it's probably not useful to use this terminology at all since it would require so much unpacking that you could teach a covenant child more directly by just teaching what you would have unpacked.
We, of course, should teach covenant children (and all children) God's law for their instruction and conviction, but I would not tie this to their baptisms.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Ben,
The term is highly Reformed. For example:
The Larger Catechism of the Westminster Standards (1648)
Q. 167. How is baptism to be improved by us?
A. The needful but much neglected duty of improving our baptism, is to be performed by us all our life long, especially in the time of temptation, and when we are present at the administration of it to others; by serious and thankful consideration of the nature of it, and of the ends for which Christ instituted it, the privileges and benefits conferred and sealed thereby, and our solemn vow made therein; by being humbled for our sinful defilement, our falling short of, and walking contrary to, the grace of baptism, and our engagements; by growing up to assurance of pardon of sin, and of all other blessings sealed to us in that sacrament; by drawing strength from the death and resurrection of Christ, into whom we are baptized, for the mortifying of sin, and quickening of grace; and by endeavoring to live by faith, to have our conversation in holiness and righteousness, as those that have therein given up their names to Christ; and to walk in brotherly love, as being baptized by the same Spirit into one body.
http://www.opc.org/nh.html?article_id=544
The term is highly Reformed. For example:
The Larger Catechism of the Westminster Standards (1648)
Q. 167. How is baptism to be improved by us?
A. The needful but much neglected duty of improving our baptism, is to be performed by us all our life long, especially in the time of temptation, and when we are present at the administration of it to others; by serious and thankful consideration of the nature of it, and of the ends for which Christ instituted it, the privileges and benefits conferred and sealed thereby, and our solemn vow made therein; by being humbled for our sinful defilement, our falling short of, and walking contrary to, the grace of baptism, and our engagements; by growing up to assurance of pardon of sin, and of all other blessings sealed to us in that sacrament; by drawing strength from the death and resurrection of Christ, into whom we are baptized, for the mortifying of sin, and quickening of grace; and by endeavoring to live by faith, to have our conversation in holiness and righteousness, as those that have therein given up their names to Christ; and to walk in brotherly love, as being baptized by the same Spirit into one body.
http://www.opc.org/nh.html?article_id=544
Ben Mordecai
Puritan Board Freshman
I knew it sounded familiar. I think the catechism said it better than I could. The catechism seems to be speaking of employing the sacrament to the service of walking by faith.
Cymro
Puritan Board Junior
We have to consider age limitations and the ability to comprehend parental guidance and instruction. The father being a priest in his own house, is party to that “improving.”
His duty, obligation and responsibility is to minister that which is needful whether teaching, discipline or example. He is not God and therefore the true state of the child is not within his domain. He has to obey what the Lord has told him to do, and also to exercise faith in the covenant promise.
God has commanded him after this fashion ,Deut 6:6-7, “these words thou shalt teach DILIGENTLY unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down ,and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them on thy hand etc.” This contains formal teaching, informal, and personal example. And example is necessary as children are master imitators and are quick to pick up inconsistencies.
We are to be watchful over any sprouting of corruption and lovingly discipline if necessary, and point out how they can practise a better way consistent with their status as covenant children. But also to lovingly cultivate signs of spiritual promise, and encourage those evidences.
I think there is a general laxity amongst us paedobaptists in leaving children to find their own spiritual level, whereas in education we do not tolerate that. If we are concerned about our children’s eternity and the possible danger that can befall them, we ought to travail in love for them. As the text above teaches, there must be a manageable diet of the word of God according to their age, for it is the incorruptible word that is used to save a soul. Thy word is truth, sanctify them by thy truth. We have the means, train up the child in the way that he should go. That is the way to improve the child’s baptism, as its response will be its participation in the improving. Children are to be reminded regularly (as we ourselves) what their baptism means , its privileges and responsibilities, and we as parents tie God’s hands with His promise.
His duty, obligation and responsibility is to minister that which is needful whether teaching, discipline or example. He is not God and therefore the true state of the child is not within his domain. He has to obey what the Lord has told him to do, and also to exercise faith in the covenant promise.
God has commanded him after this fashion ,Deut 6:6-7, “these words thou shalt teach DILIGENTLY unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down ,and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them on thy hand etc.” This contains formal teaching, informal, and personal example. And example is necessary as children are master imitators and are quick to pick up inconsistencies.
We are to be watchful over any sprouting of corruption and lovingly discipline if necessary, and point out how they can practise a better way consistent with their status as covenant children. But also to lovingly cultivate signs of spiritual promise, and encourage those evidences.
I think there is a general laxity amongst us paedobaptists in leaving children to find their own spiritual level, whereas in education we do not tolerate that. If we are concerned about our children’s eternity and the possible danger that can befall them, we ought to travail in love for them. As the text above teaches, there must be a manageable diet of the word of God according to their age, for it is the incorruptible word that is used to save a soul. Thy word is truth, sanctify them by thy truth. We have the means, train up the child in the way that he should go. That is the way to improve the child’s baptism, as its response will be its participation in the improving. Children are to be reminded regularly (as we ourselves) what their baptism means , its privileges and responsibilities, and we as parents tie God’s hands with His promise.
Would one not say"to make the Baptism a valid one?"
The way that it word seems to be presuming that the baptized baby will be getting saved later on, as part of the blessing of the Sacrament.
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