WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
Covenant Theologian: Adam, as our federal representative, transgressed the Covenant of Works, wherein he was required to stay within complete obedience to God's moral law without waver, and, through his transgression, we inherit the status of breaking covenant with God, to the end of eternal death and the wrath of God at Christ's second coming. Agree?
Dispensationalist/Baptist: Yes.
CT: So, we are born into this world as "covenant breakers", and are "by nature children of wrath". We inherit the punishment of transgressing the Covenant of Works, which is eternal damnation. Sin is defined as "missing the mark" in Hebrew, that is, breaking God's perfect law. So, we inherit the nature of original Sin, wherein Adam transgressed the Covenant of Works, making all of mankind born as sinners. Agree?
D/B: Yes.
CT: So we are born into this world as covenant breakers?
D/B: Yes, I would say so.
CT: So we can be both in covenant with God, and break covenant with God, without our actual knowledge of it?
D/B: Yes.
CT: Additionally, we can be born obligated to the Covenant of Works, without our knowledge, not receive the promised benefits of that covenant, and furthermore break such covenant, without our knowledge of it?
D/B: Yes.
CT: So, assuming Scripture is true in that God will not violate the covenant, and that it is everlasting... it is left logically to believe that the children of believers can be born into the Covenant of Grace, legally speaking and according to the everlasting Abrahamic promise, without their knowledge of it and without the requirement that they receive the promised spiritual benefits that go along with such a covenant?
D/B: Well, that's a different covenant than the Covenant of Works. The Covenant of Grace, being salvation, is initiated by man's faith.
CT: Actually, all of God's covenants begin with Him and His initiation. God outlines the covenant, makes the obligations, presents the promises for obedience, and imposes it upon whom He wills, with the promises and blessings given to those who meet the obligations of the covenant and curses or punishments given to those who transgress the obligations of the covenant; this is done in the same Ancient Near Eastern tradition of the suzerainty treaties, made between political unequals, the suzerain or paramount ruler and the vassal or subservient power. The purpose of suzerainty treaties, originating in the Hittite Empire (ca. 1500"“1200 B.C.), was to guarantee that a smaller state remained the faithful ally of the empire and did not pursue an independent foreign policy. In the same way, God imposes these covenantal obligations on believers and their children according to the everlasting Abrahamic covenant, which we as Gentiles have been grafted into, according to Ephesians 2, Galatians 3, and Romans 11.
D/B: Let's talk about something else.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thoughts/comments/suggestions?
Dispensationalist/Baptist: Yes.
CT: So, we are born into this world as "covenant breakers", and are "by nature children of wrath". We inherit the punishment of transgressing the Covenant of Works, which is eternal damnation. Sin is defined as "missing the mark" in Hebrew, that is, breaking God's perfect law. So, we inherit the nature of original Sin, wherein Adam transgressed the Covenant of Works, making all of mankind born as sinners. Agree?
D/B: Yes.
CT: So we are born into this world as covenant breakers?
D/B: Yes, I would say so.
CT: So we can be both in covenant with God, and break covenant with God, without our actual knowledge of it?
D/B: Yes.
CT: Additionally, we can be born obligated to the Covenant of Works, without our knowledge, not receive the promised benefits of that covenant, and furthermore break such covenant, without our knowledge of it?
D/B: Yes.
CT: So, assuming Scripture is true in that God will not violate the covenant, and that it is everlasting... it is left logically to believe that the children of believers can be born into the Covenant of Grace, legally speaking and according to the everlasting Abrahamic promise, without their knowledge of it and without the requirement that they receive the promised spiritual benefits that go along with such a covenant?
D/B: Well, that's a different covenant than the Covenant of Works. The Covenant of Grace, being salvation, is initiated by man's faith.
CT: Actually, all of God's covenants begin with Him and His initiation. God outlines the covenant, makes the obligations, presents the promises for obedience, and imposes it upon whom He wills, with the promises and blessings given to those who meet the obligations of the covenant and curses or punishments given to those who transgress the obligations of the covenant; this is done in the same Ancient Near Eastern tradition of the suzerainty treaties, made between political unequals, the suzerain or paramount ruler and the vassal or subservient power. The purpose of suzerainty treaties, originating in the Hittite Empire (ca. 1500"“1200 B.C.), was to guarantee that a smaller state remained the faithful ally of the empire and did not pursue an independent foreign policy. In the same way, God imposes these covenantal obligations on believers and their children according to the everlasting Abrahamic covenant, which we as Gentiles have been grafted into, according to Ephesians 2, Galatians 3, and Romans 11.
D/B: Let's talk about something else.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thoughts/comments/suggestions?
However, they all respond the same, with "but that's a different covenant."
You presentation is clever...but you would never get past the first question with a real D/B.
