A disadvantage of not growing up psalm-singing

[RamistThomist]

I am not making an argument about EP either way. I worship in a church that sings both psalms and uninspired hymns. But I have noticed in reading the Covenanters, that in the midst of persecutation, they could break into singing glorious psalms. It came naturally because this was how they worshipped for generations. Sadly, if I were in their place, the best I could do is "Shine, Jesus Shine."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etxzs_tbJgI

 

[Poimen]

A different context but relevant to your main point: at Herman Bavinck's funeral the crowd spontaneously sang a psalm as they had them memorized from years of singing them in kerk and huis.

 

[irresistible_grace]

Well, my hope is that my children will be able to sing those glorious Psalms as the Covenanters did. When we read about Marget Wilson, my 6 year old daughter always asks me to sing Psalm 25 to her...

O turn to me Thy face
To me Thy mercy show
For I am very desolate
And brought exceeding low

It makes me cry (with joy and sadness). I am so blessed.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don't see the problem.

There have been many stories of persecuted believers who sing hymns while they are going through acute persecution. Objectively, God is praised and glorified. Subjectively, the believers are comforted and encouraged.

Precisely because I am told to follow the example of Jesus when persecuted, I hope that if I were persecuted I would sing songs praising the person of Jesus rather than singing the songs of type and shadow.

 

[Boosterseat_91]

I don't see the problem.
Precisely because I am told to follow the example of Jesus when persecuted, I hope that if I were persecuted I would sing songs praising the person of Jesus rather than singing the songs of type and shadow.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you here, but there is no example of Jesus singing a hymn in Scripture. It is, therefore, not following Christ's example to sing a hymn (not that I'm saying it's wrong, but you can't say it's following the example set by Christ). We see Christ and His Apostles used the Psalms for comfort and edification.

@

 

[Jake]

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you here, but there is no example of Jesus singing a hymn in Scripture.

"And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives." -Mark 14:26 (AV)

 

[Boosterseat_91]

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you here, but there is no example of Jesus singing a hymn in Scripture.

"And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives." -Mark 14:26 (AV)

Yes, a hymn or song of praise which in the mind of a 1st century Jew referred to the Psalms. Specifically, this is speaking of the Hallel which are Psalms 113-118 which begin with the words "Hallelujah." We cannot impose the understanding we have of a hymn in the 21st century onto the text which was utterly foreign to the minds of the original audience.

 

[au5t1n]

Some of the benefits of psalm-singing become clear only after one has been singing them often for months or years. The Scripture seeps in; the words are memorized; the content is found to be so much richer (being inspired and designed for the purpose of the praise of God's people) than uninspired hymns, and so much more nourishing to the weary soul. Even the best of uninspired hymns -- some of my very favorites -- eventually start to sound like "Shine, Jesus Shine" next to the Songs of Zion.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Some of the benefits of psalm-singing become clear only after one has been singing them often for months or years. The Scripture seeps in; the words are memorized; the content is found to be so much richer (being inspired and designed for the purpose of the praise of God's people) than uninspired hymns, and so much more nourishing to the weary soul. Even the best of uninspired hymns -- some of my very favorites -- eventually start to sound like "Shine, Jesus Shine" next to the Songs of Zion.

1. In re-reading my post I see that I wrote unclearly. My apologies. I wasn't referring to following the example of Jesus singing when persecuted (no record he sang anything at all, not even psalms, after his arrest in the Garden). I was referring to Jesus himself being my example, and how I'm going to sing songs praising him.

2. Concerning the "certainty" with which I see proponents of the EP position write that Jesus sang the Hallel in the upper room... I note, with some degree of satisfaction, that if so, Jesus was celebrating the Passover in accordance with the man-made traditions of the rabbis as prescribed in the Talmud. But I don't think this needs to degenerate into an EP thread. I simply note that I do not believe that it is lamentable to sing songs explicitly praising Jesus when we go through times of difficulty.


***

I see now that this thread has been moved to the EP forum... in light of this, I will be backing out of the discussion. Have fun!

 

[au5t1n]

Hi Ben. I think you meant to quote someone else.

I would like to add to this discussion some consideration of the Reformed doctrine that our services, though imperfect and filled with sin, are accepted for Christ's sake. The Puritans would sometimes say that God "accepts the will for the deed". Applying this to praise song, even as an Exclusive Psalmodist, I do not think I need to dismiss altogether the value of martyrs praising God with uninspired hymns in the midst of their fierce persecution, or of hymn-singers doing so today in times of difficulty. I do not think the Lord accepted none of my praise when I sang uninspired hymns; I believe he accepted what was good in it (the desire to praise God, the truths contained in the words, etc.) because of the work of Christ, passing over that which was sinful (the use of a form he had not prescribed). Likewise, I believe that when I sing psalms today, there are many impure motives, frequent distractions, lack of fervency, etc. that characterize my singing and God also accepts my praise now because of the work of his Son. For this reason, I do not think holding to EP requires seeing no value in anybody else's praise. It merely encourages us to press on toward the mark and seek out more and more every day the revealed will of God that we might please him in all things who first loved us, while being thankful that he forgives us for the sins we have committed, and accepts our persons and services, though imperfect, through Jesus Christ.

 

[markkoller]

Some of the benefits of psalm-singing become clear only after one has been singing them often for months or years. The Scripture seeps in; the words are memorized; the content is found to be so much richer (being inspired and designed for the purpose of the praise of God's people) than uninspired hymns, and so much more nourishing to the weary soul. Even the best of uninspired hymns -- some of my very favorites -- eventually start to sound like "Shine, Jesus Shine" next to the Songs of Zion.

Amen!

 

[irresistible_grace]

Some of the benefits of psalm-singing become clear only after one has been singing them often for months or years. The Scripture seeps in; the words are memorized; the content is found to be so much richer (being inspired and designed for the purpose of the praise of God's people) than uninspired hymns, and so much more nourishing to the weary soul. Even the best of uninspired hymns -- some of my very favorites -- eventually start to sound like "Shine, Jesus Shine" next to the Songs of Zion.

Amen!

&

 

[Rom]

Precisely because I am told to follow the example of Jesus when persecuted, I hope that if I were persecuted I would sing songs praising the person of Jesus rather than singing the songs of type and shadow.

You may want to tell the Apostles that the Psalms they quote had nothing to do with the person of Jesus.

 

[Poimen]

Precisely because I am told to follow the example of Jesus when persecuted, I hope that if I were persecuted I would sing songs praising the person of Jesus rather than singing the songs of type and shadow.

Ben: Perhaps you have overreached here as your argument would abolish the singing of the biblical psalms in toto. For if the psalms are songs of type and shadow, then they exclusively belong to the ceremonial and temple ordinances.

 

[Peairtach]

The Lord is undoubtedly teaching us the importance of learning from "type and shadow" when He gave us His own Psalmbook from the youthful church of the OT, but didn't give us a corresponding NT Psalmbook.

The genius of typology is that the OT Church was taught about Christ in the practice of it, while the NT Church is taught about Christ in the contemplation of it.

Just as an adult never outgrows the alphabet, or what he has learned through childish play, so the Church will never outgrow typological training.

All that we learn in the NT must be understood in the context of the a,b,c, that is taught in the OT. The Lord has emphasised this by only giving us inspired, infallible and inerrant OT Psalms, but no inspired, infallible and inerrant NT Psalms.

Therefore, at the most, other songs, outwith the Psalter, should only be supplementary.

 

[nick]

Some of the benefits of psalm-singing become clear only after one has been singing them often for months or years. The Scripture seeps in; the words are memorized; the content is found to be so much richer (being inspired and designed for the purpose of the praise of God's people) than uninspired hymns, and so much more nourishing to the weary soul. Even the best of uninspired hymns -- some of my very favorites -- eventually start to sound like "Shine, Jesus Shine" next to the Songs of Zion.

I've visited a few psalm-singing churches early this year and am now a member at one. It really is great singing these weekly with the congregation. I look around at the young adults that grew up singing them and few reference the psalter for every psalm. It really is a beautiful thing to see it written on their hearts.

 

[Cymro]

If they are not to be sung because they are but type and shadow, then it follows
that they are not to preached from. And then it follows that the OT which is typical
is ruled out from exposition. Are hymns inspired?--no! Are the psalms inspired?--yes!!
Did God give a manual of praise to the church?--Yes. What authority, or council has
removed its validity?
The Jews of Christ's day would only think of hymns as psalms for hymns had not been
'invented ' then, and not really in quantity till the 18th century. As been mentioned, one cannot
impose 21st century understanding of the modern meaning of hymn upon the belief and practice of 1st century
Christians. To answer the post, it is one of my regrets that I was not brought up on the knee of the psalms, nor
the catechism. It would mean that I would have 'the word of Christ dwelling in me (more) richly.'
"My comfort, and my heart's delight,
thy testimonies be;
And they, in all my doubts and fears,
are counsellors to me."

 

[Reformedfellow]

I disagree whole heartily with Ben's argument and need not say more than what has already been mentioned by the many responses to him, however to be fair and charitable to our brother (who has disappeared from the conversation) I am quite sure he is not arguing that the psalms should NOT be sung, but only exclusively.
As he has stated, there have been, and still are, many persecuted saints who in the face of brutal cruelty for the cause of Christ find solace and comfort in singing uninspired hymns. I would only wish to add to this that it seems very unlikely that if one was brought up on the Psalms (even with a familiarity with hymnody) that they would abandon the Word of Christ for an uninspired composition.