A question about Sabbath

[Joseph Scibbe]

I was reading some Sproul last night and he mentioned the 2 views of Christian Sabbath. I was wondering what the general view here was.

Continental View is that recreation is allowed on the Sabbath
Puritan View is that recreation is not allowed on the Sabbath

(or so that is what I gather so far)

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

Of course you should feel free to give back up points to your position.

 

[Romans922]

Puritan view is correct for we are not to do our own pleasure on the Lord's Day. Isaiah 58:

13 “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;
14 then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

 

[Peairtach]

Fairbairn (The Typology of Scripture) and Gaffin (Calvin and the Sabbath) say that the Continental Reformers were strong Sabbatarians, but they generally didn't develop the Sabbath doctrine on the strong basis that it is a creation ordinance, but were dominated by the view that it was partly a type to the Jews of resting from sin and sinful attempts to justify themselves, and was therefore God meant it to be stricter for the Jews. Such strictness and typology was supposed to have fallen away in the New Covenant.

Therefore the Sabbath-keeping on Continental Europe as respects avoiding recreations and sports, etc, relatively quickly deteriorated, as compared to Great Britain and Protestant parts of Ireland, because it didn't have the weight and basis of the clearer Puritan thinking behind it.

Of course large parts of Protestant Continental Europe were also Lutheran rather than Reformed, and some parts of Continental Europe were Romanist.

I'm sure it's possible Britain has now gone even further in wickedness than Europe in ignoring/trampling this law, as with the other 9C.

 

[jandrusk]

I like how Thomas Watson expounds the 4th commandment, which can be found at:
An Excerpt from his book The 10 Commandments

In regards to recreation I think it goes without saying that this would be for your own pleasure and not God's pleasure, unless of course you can find an activity that honors God through the recreation. I personally make it my recreation to work on memorizing the Westminster standards on the Lords Day.

I think Romans922 reference to Isaiah 58: 13-14 makes it obvious.

 

[Peairtach]

A gentle stroll in the park enjoying the natural world, a picnic, reading a book in the garden, walking to church, may also be deemed acceptable by many Reformed.

 

[Tripel]

Puritan view is correct for we are not to do our own pleasure on the Lord's Day.

Whose pleasure is it if I sit on my porch on nice Sunday afternoon?

 

[BertMulder]

having grown up on the continent, I would say that both views are essentially the same...

Although there is the dogmatic difference of emphasis...

The continental view, in the footsteps of Calvin, emphasizes the element that in all our life (but especially on the sabbath), our life must be devoted to the service of God.

While, correct me if I am wrong, the presbyterian view is that we must devote the entire sabbath to the worship of God, not denying that we must do so every day of our lives...

 

[Peairtach]

Puritan view is correct for we are not to do our own pleasure on the Lord's Day.

Whose pleasure is it if I sit on my porch on nice Sunday afternoon?

You are resting on your porch.

-----Added 10/6/2009 at 04:16:53 EST-----

Of course, especially since the 19th century, the British Church has been hit by Arminianism, Dispensationalism, Liberalism and Pentecostalism, with their accompanying Antinomianism.

None of this helps the cause of the Sabbath within the Church, let alone outside it.

 

[Tripel]

Whose pleasure is it if I sit on my porch on nice Sunday afternoon?

You are resting on your porch.

No more than standing in my backyard, throwing a frisbee with my child.

 

[jandrusk]

Depends upon the context. If your mind is set on worldly objects while your sitting on the porch I think this would show that your not resting in Christ. In fact you could use the same argument for even acts of piety if your heart isn't in it, then you would be profaning the Sabbath. I think this is where self-examination comes in to play as there is no set prescription for all cases. You have to examine your conscience to ensure that you indeed have an interest in Christ or not.

I have found reading Edwards resolutions every Lords Day helps me with this.

 

[Peairtach]

Whose pleasure is it if I sit on my porch on nice Sunday afternoon?

You are resting on your porch.

No more than standing in my backyard, throwing a frisbee with my child.

It can be difficult with children on the Sabbath to get them used to it.

What if you're playing frisbee with your friend?

Once games are introduced on the Sabbath, what's your limit, where do you draw the line in the sand?

 

[Scott1]

The Westminster Confession and London Baptist Confession are virtually identical on this. They summarize Scripture to say the sabbath is a day "set apart" on which we "cease" from the ordinary work and play that consumes us the other six days, and to do so in thought, word and deed- in order to prioritize worship all the day.

It's a day for:

1) advance preparation
2) abstain from employment
3) abstain from recreation

It's inconvenient, particularly if one has not tried to develop a pattern to keep it, but it is, in the end a great delight.

I think that while much is made of "Continental" v. "Puritan" views, they were very similar in practice- and both knew it a beautiful thing.

 

[Tripel]

Once games are introduced on the Sabbath, what's your limit, where do you draw the line in the sand?

I'm not certain where exactly the line is, but it's somewhere between throwing a baseball in the yard and participating in an organized team practice or game. I consider an organized sport to be beyond recreation, due to its competitive and demanding nature. Actually, I think these days it is closer to a job or schoolwork than recreation.

I consider recreation a good thing on the Sabbath, be that a walk through the neighborhood, a sit on the front porch, or a backyard game with family or friends.

 

[OPC'n]

Continental view to an extent. I don't listen to secular music on Sundays, or go shopping etc. But if we have a fellowship meal at someone's house on Sunday and the kids want to play a game we allow it bc we feel that is fellowship for them. I would ride a bike or take a hike etc to enjoy His creation which He has commanded that we do in order to give Him praise

 

[Peairtach]

Continental view to an extent. I don't listen to secular music on Sundays, or go shopping etc. But if we have a fellowship meal at someone's house on Sunday and the kids want to play a game we allow it bc we feel that is fellowship for them. I would ride a bike or take a hike etc to enjoy His creation which He has commanded that we do in order to give Him praise

I don't know if this is the Continental view, because these activities involve rest where the mind is still not taken up with things that would prevent one's thoughts returning to God.

Of course Christian (Sabbatarian) parents will have slightly different strategies for getting kids used/eased into the Christian Sabbath.

The "Continental View" (although not espoused by the original generation of Continental reformers) would probably allow for games and sports and secular TV, music, recreational shopping, etc, etc. until the whole day is clogged-up and one's mind is clogged-up, and you are not open to positively enjoying your rest in Christ Jesus, not open to the thought of God, not open to worship, and may be unecessarily employing others right, left and centre.

The WCF has been criticised because it doesn't seem to allow for the rest aspect of the Sabbath, but the impression is said to be given that every waking hour must be taken up with positively worshipful activities, such that it would be e.g. wrong to have a snooze on a Sabbath PM or go for a walk in the park.


I don't know if this is what the divines intended. I certainly believe the Sabbath is meant for physical, mental and spiritual rest, as well as positive engagement in worship, praise and reading good books, listening to Christian music. It's also for Christian fellowship and hospitality and is/should be a feast day, rather than a fast day.

 

[Jon Peters]

Once games are introduced on the Sabbath, what's your limit, where do you draw the line in the sand?

Just a friendly reminder that Sabbatarians have to draw a line in the sand as well. The use of electricity, water, public roads (the list, no doubt, could be extended substantially) all require people to be employed on the Lord's Day to keep them operative.

 

[David J Houston]

...

Depends upon the context. If your mind is set on worldly objects while your sitting on the porch I think this would show that your not resting in Christ. In fact you could use the same argument for even acts of piety if your heart isn't in it, then you would be profaning the Sabbath. I think this is where self-examination comes in to play as there is no set prescription for all cases. You have to examine your conscience to ensure that you indeed have an interest in Christ or not.

I have found reading Edwards resolutions every Lords Day helps me with this.

So if I'm driving home from church and I'm not thinking about God... am I breaking the Sabbath? How's about if I'm preparing a meal? Turning on lights in my house? I'll often do all of these things without even thinking about anything! You're telling me that I'm in sin if at any given moment on the Lord's Day I am occupied with thoughts of anything else?

 

[Peairtach]

Once games are introduced on the Sabbath, what's your limit, where do you draw the line in the sand?

Just a friendly reminder that Sabbatarians have to draw a line in the sand as well. The use of electricity, water, public roads (the list, no doubt, could be extended substantially) all require people to be employed on the Lord's Day to keep them operative.

Well we have to decide what is necessary and what is not.

How many people does it take to run e.g. the electricity system on the Sabbath? If everyone or every Sabbatarian had e.g. a private generator that they used on the Sabbath this would entail more not less work.

I don't see Sabbatarians use of e.g. electricity on the Sabbath as a valid argument. The Bible teaches that works of necessity must be done. The fact that everyone has electricity lessens Sabbath work for the many. Those who run the system should make sure that their employees are not overly-burdened with necessary Sabbath work.

I think Gary North used this argument. It doesn't amount to a hill o'beans.

 

[Scott1]

Richard Tallach
The WCF has been criticised because it doesn't seem to allow for the rest aspect of the Sabbath, but the impression is said to be given that every waking hour must be taken up with positively worshipful activities, such that it would be e.g. wrong to have a snooze on a Sabbath PM or go for a walk in the park.

The Westminster Confession and London Baptist Confession summarize Scripture the same.

The idea is that we rest from work and recreation, and rest from seeking to work or entertain ourselves- activities that consume much of the other six days. We are an entertainment/recreation/amusement seeking generation and it consumes much of our time. On the Lord's Day, we rest even from seeking to do that, so that worship may be prioritized, all the day.

 

[Peairtach]

So if I'm driving home from church and I'm not thinking about God... am I breaking the Sabbath?

You should be concentrating on the road. You're not breaking the Sabbath.

The day as a whole must be devoted to God. Your mind as a whole should be given over to Christ and enjoying and entering into His rest in a special way on the Lord's Day rather than to elements of life such as work and play.

It doesn't take any thought to switch on a light. The Lord knows that certain things must be done.

I don't believe it's sin if your mind is empty or you have a nap. It is the day of rest.

We have six days for work, rest, worship and play and other elements of life. On the Sabbath we have the privilege of 24 hours devoted to enjoying our rest in Christ, in a way we don't in the rest of the week.

 

[Tripel]

We are an entertainment/recreation/amusement seeking generation and it consumes much of our time. On the Lord's Day, we rest even from seeking to do that, so that worship may be prioritized, all the day.

While I am as entertainment-seeking as the next guy, my week contains a fairly small amount of recreation. I've mentioned before about taking walks or throwing a frisbee--I never get a chance to do these things during the other 6 days of the week. I'm too busy working, going to meetings, running errands, and tending to my family's needs. This is why I love Sunday--it's a day when I know I don't have to do any work or any of the things that occupy the rest of my week. I can focus on worship, rest, and fellowship.

 

[Jon Peters]

Once games are introduced on the Sabbath, what's your limit, where do you draw the line in the sand?

Just a friendly reminder that Sabbatarians have to draw a line in the sand as well. The use of electricity, water, public roads (the list, no doubt, could be extended substantially) all require people to be employed on the Lord's Day to keep them operative.

Well we have to decide what is necessary and what is not.

How many people does it take to run e.g. the electricity system on the Sabbath? If everyone or every Sabbatarian had e.g. a private generator that they used on the Sabbath this would entail more not less work.

I don't see Sabbatarians use of e.g. electricity on the Sabbath as a valid argument. The Bible teaches that works of necessity must be done. The fact that everyone has electricity lessens Sabbath work for the many. Those who run the system should make sure that their employees are not overly-burdened with necessary Sabbath work.

I think Gary North used this argument. It doesn't amount to a hill o'beans.

You went nuclear! I can't in good conscience use an argument Gary North used!

I have to disagree. It is a hill of beans. Sabbatarians can't squeeze all of their tough issues into the necessity bag. It's going to swallow the argument eventually.

I'm not sure I even follow you logic. Are you saying that we just need to minimize the number of people working on the Lord's Day? Does that mean if half my kids play frisbee and not all, we're keeping the Sabbath? Or better yet, what if I throw a boomarang?

 

[Gesetveemet]

Both views are the same.

 

[David J Houston]

Just a friendly reminder that Sabbatarians have to draw a line in the sand as well. The use of electricity, water, public roads (the list, no doubt, could be extended substantially) all require people to be employed on the Lord's Day to keep them operative.

Well we have to decide what is necessary and what is not.

How many people does it take to run e.g. the electricity system on the Sabbath? If everyone or every Sabbatarian had e.g. a private generator that they used on the Sabbath this would entail more not less work.

I don't see Sabbatarians use of e.g. electricity on the Sabbath as a valid argument. The Bible teaches that works of necessity must be done. The fact that everyone has electricity lessens Sabbath work for the many. Those who run the system should make sure that their employees are not overly-burdened with necessary Sabbath work.

I think Gary North used this argument. It doesn't amount to a hill o'beans.

You went nuclear! I can't in good conscience use an argument Gary North used!

I have to disagree. It is a hill of beans. Sabbatarians can't squeeze all of their tough issues into the necessity bag. It's going to swallow the argument eventually.

I'm not sure I even follow you logic. Are you saying that we just need to minimize the number of people working on the Lord's Day? Does that mean if half my kids play frisbee and not all, we're keeping the Sabbath? Or better yet, what if I throw a boomarang?

The problem I see is the ambiguity of the way people are using 'necessity'. Necessary for survival? Necessary for my personal enjoyment? I've been trying to work this one out for a while.

 

[Scott1]

We are an entertainment/recreation/amusement seeking generation and it consumes much of our time. On the Lord's Day, we rest even from seeking to do that, so that worship may be prioritized, all the day.

While I am as entertainment-seeking as the next guy, my week contains a fairly small amount of recreation. I've mentioned before about taking walks or throwing a frisbee--I never get a chance to do these things during the other 6 days of the week. I'm too busy working, going to meetings, running errands, and tending to my family's needs. This is why I love Sunday--it's a day when I know I don't have to do any work or any of the things that occupy the rest of my week. I can focus on worship, rest, and fellowship.

If you seek it, God will give you time to work and play the 6 days. It's amazing, doesn't make sense but I have found it to work like tithing.

It doesn't make sense if you live on 90% you have more.
It doesn't make sense if you work and play 6 days and have more time.

What I find is how really deep my sin is- not really wanting to set aside any of "my time" for the Lord. Particularly, not to suffer to make it happen (e.g. lowering lifestyle, restrain spending or activity). This is one of the great areas to grow in all the Christian life, through seeing the fourth commandment through the eyes of faith.

But in God's economy, it works. In faith, try it.

 

[Peairtach]

Is the supply of electricity necessary on the Sabbath?

I would say yes. Why do you think it's unnecessary?

No-one can avoid applying the Fourth Commandment. The question is, Do we apply it well or badly ?

 

[Parsifal23]

I favour The Puritain view but I am is esstentilly forced to work Sunday afternoons after Church so it's a little confuseing for me. My Pastor favours The NCT view (along with almost everybody else in my Church) I consider it a Theological novelty. So it's complicated for me

 

[MarieP]

Depends upon the context. If your mind is set on worldly objects while your sitting on the porch I think this would show that your not resting in Christ. In fact you could use the same argument for even acts of piety if your heart isn't in it, then you would be profaning the Sabbath. I think this is where self-examination comes in to play as there is no set prescription for all cases. You have to examine your conscience to ensure that you indeed have an interest in Christ or not.

I have found reading Edwards resolutions every Lords Day helps me with this.

I was a bit surprised, though, that Edwards said he wouldn't laugh on the Sabbath. I think there's a place for laughing with your brethren on the Lord's Day. It's certainly not going to dominate the Day, but I couldn't imagine the Day passing without it!

 

[JennyG]

I was a bit surprised, though, that Edwards said he wouldn't laugh on the Sabbath. I think there's a place for laughing with your brethren on the Lord's Day. It's certainly not going to dominate the Day, but I couldn't imagine the Day passing without it!

I don't know what he had in mind in saying that... but it must make a pretty considerable difference what you laugh at.
I'm sure it can be outright sin, but surely much laughter is both innocent and Godly