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And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
This, of course, was in response to the legalism of the Pharisees surrounding the Sabbath observation.
Again, I will admit up front, maybe I need to be doing more, but I still sense a bit of extremism on on the other side.
Just my
Mr. Gobelman,
It would behoove you to stop throwing around the pharisee/legalist accusations. It would also behoove you to read the Confessions which are the standards of this board. You are not welcome to advocate things contra the confessions. You are certainly not welcome to cast off centuries of Reformed Theologians and, well, Paul, the Apostles, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc. as being legalistic. Respectfully, if your are contra the Confession, please keep them to yourself.
Mr. Gobelman,
Whether you think so or not, you are advocating things against the Confessional understanding of what it is to keep the Sabbath. Football game watching is a recreation. You don't have to agree with it, but its advocacy will not be welcome here. Further, you have thrown accusations of Phariseeism and legalism for those who believe the Confessional understanding of the Sabbath.
Years ago Hughes Old said of those who were claiming the “continental” view of the Sabbath over against that of the Confession, that they must mean the “continental Catholic” view, allowing no disjunction between the Reformed in Britain and those in Europe proper.
Mr. Gobelman,
Whether you think so or not, you are advocating things against the Confessional understanding of what it is to keep the Sabbath. Football game watching is a recreation. You don't have to agree with it, but its advocacy will not be welcome here. Further, you have thrown accusations of Phariseeism and legalism for those who believe the Confessional understanding of the Sabbath.
Under the Puritan view, may a husband and wife have sex on the Sabbath?
Yes. "Not Laboring" does not mean "No Physical Exertion".
Yes. "Not Laboring" does not mean "No Physical Exertion".
Under the Puritan view, may a husband and wife have sex on the Sabbath?
Yes. "Not Laboring" does not mean "No Physical Exertion".
I wasn't asking on the basis of physical exertion, but on recreation.
If we are to abstain from recreation on the Sabbath, does that mean that sex on that day is sinful?
Maybe I am being dense but how is sex "recreation" in the same way Baseball or Football is "recreation"?
Maybe I am being dense but how is sex "recreation" in the same way Baseball or Football is "recreation"?
The Confession doesn't speak to sports, only recreation. There is a lot that has nothing to do with sports that would fall under "recreation". I've heard many on the PB argue against recreation because the day is not for man's enjoyment. Many have also said (similar to the WCF) that all of our thoughts and conversations need to be on the things of God.
I just don't see how sex fits into that.
Some of us were blessed to have had grandfathers who, somehow understood this and tried to live it out before their grandchildren.
Under the Puritan view, may a husband and wife have sex on the Sabbath?
(and that's a serious question, as silly or awkward as it may sound)
The Lord's Day is for worship, rest, fellowship, and works of necessity and mercy. So then, our thoughts, words, and deeds are to be directed towards these things.
You summarize the Confessions' summary of the doctrine of Scripture well.
One questions I have is "What things are appropriate for fellowship?" Can we kick a soccer ball leisurely with one another?
Abstaining from recreation- thinking about it, talking about it, as well as doing it is part of the confessional summary.
(taking a break from the pursuit of entertaining, recreating or amusing ourselves is part of keeping the sabbath day holy- this is particularly difficult in this generation that is consumed with entertaining and amusing itself, without ceasing)
Can we discuss the weather at church?
The only way I would know to explain this is incidentally, yes, as long as doing so does not dominate or interfere with the focus of the day.
Are we pursuing our own pleasures? Or are we building up the church by fellowshipping with one another?
Yes, your presence on Lord's Day worship is an encouragement in the faith to others, just by being there. I think this is a necessary incident of corporate worship.
Or may we only fellowship with one another by speaking of the things of God?
Look to directing thoughts, words and deeds toward that... but you have to hear people's problems before you can pray for them or try to help them with mercy, for example.
This thread is very interesting.
It might sound as if someone said "Yes, sexual relations on the Sabbath is acceptable" then you might come right back and use that to justify all sorts of other things.
I think that is something for you and your wife to think about before God and an open bible. Conjugal relations are a special form of fellowship between you and your wife.
I'm just looking for clarification from those who strictly hold to the Confession in this regard.
With respect to Col. 2 and Romans 14: the immediate association of "sabbaths" in Col. with the new moon fests, etc., shows that we are talking about something specifically Judaical and ceremonial -- not moral. In Romans 14, the close association with eating or not eating meats shows, again, that we're not talking about moral duties, but weak believers with certain superstitions or weakness of conscience regarding a day. It does not speak, however, against the moral duty of observing the creation-ordained Sabbath, which has even greater meaning with the advent of Christ.
In your previous post (which has been deleted) you specifically state that recreation on the Sabbath is not sin. If you are truly "just looking for clarification" then ask questions without promoting your unconfessional views.
If having sex on the Sabbath causes you to sin then refrain from it.