A Simple Guide to Experience Miracles (Moreland)

[RamistThomist]

I'm trying to figure out how best to articulate this, but what I was trying to get at is that the gifts are spoken of by Paul but then he (and the other Aposltes) "move on". It's like all these gifts disapper into the background. We know what it looks like for Pator, Elder, and Diaconate gifts to include specific qualifications but these other gifts are just "there". We don't even know much about how the "prophet" group occurred in the OT, but they "fit" and there's no sense in which it seemed all that debatable whether someone was raised up from the Lord for some purpose.

I simply don't draw that conclusion. Even if they are just there as a "given," it goes beyond the evidence to claim they no longer function.

Not to poison the well, but it's usually been the "weirdos" in Church history that suddenly annoint themselves with apostolic powers and the broad acceptance of the charismatic movement in the U.S. spreading to the world has a pretty hinky pedigree from the early days of Pentecostalism to the Latter Rain movement. It's not exacly the zenith of the Church's health where suddenly people are claiming regulary that tongues, healing, prophecy (even apostles) are an expected "office" in the warp and woof of the Church.

Okay. I grant abuses have happened.

By the way, I'm really frustrated by all my spelling issues. It seems I'm spelling OK but it's my vision and I don't have time to go back and edit my posts.

My vision, too, is getting worse (kind of ironic for this thread).

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I simply don't draw that conclusion. Even if they are just there as a "given," it goes beyond the evidence to claim they no longer function.

I didn't draw a conclusion from that point that they just cease to operate. I drew the conclusion that they were operating organically then in a way that "made sense" to everyone at the time. It's sort of how I feel when people today wonder what a woman or a man was and I have to remind my kids that I lived in a world not too long ago where that was obvious (as were the pronouns we used). That they ceased to function as identifiable office in the Church isn't necessarily evidence that the gifts ceased altogether but the issue is that, if they arise again in a Church where they have grown to function in a healthy manner without them, then what does it look like for the Church to recognize them and benefit from them again? Of course, the "apostle" down the road has an answer to that question, but I'm asking within the context of hwere I think the Spirit and the Gifts are operating (to quote A Mighty Fortress).

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Or Jesus decided to do it twice (or in stages rather) for a specific theological point to his audience. Notice the stories around that one in Mark how the disciples are having trouble believing. Peter states that Jesus is the Christ in the following passage but clearly doesn't really know what that entails. Peter sees "partially" but not yet in full. His eyes need to be further opened after the resurrection.

My understanding has always been that Christ healed this man in this way to illustrate a spiritual truth. I believe that's how the older commentators saw it as well and every sermon I've heard on the passage brings this out.