Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on what one might say in response to his interpretation. My knee jerk reaction was to post the scripture saying not all who are of Israel are Israel.
Leah, some points of refutation:
1st point: he is making a radical distinction between Israel and the Church, which is not valid. Israel was sifted – the chaff separated from the grain – when Peter said (reiterating Moses), “every soul which will not hear that prophet [Christ], shall be destroyed from among the people” (Acts 3:22,23; cf. Deut 18:15,18,19). In other words, all those Jews who rejected the Messiah were cut off from the nation and the right to the name Israel – even unto this day.
2nd point: he says the Book of Revelation shows the national repentance of Israel – but where is that to be seen there? The 144,000? John, in the very first verse of Revelation says that the prophecy and its images are to be interpreted symbolically. To excerpt from another post on the amil view of Revelation:
For the benefit of those lurking and wondering about some of the interpretive presuppositions of this school, a primary one has been convincingly put forth by G.K. Beale in his massive and erudite,
The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text, and that is the contents of the Revelation are made known by means of symbolism. In the very first verse of the book (1:1) it is written,
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John” [emphasis added]
This word signified (“communicated” NASB, “made it known” ESV, NIV) – [SIZE=+1]
shmanen[/SIZE] –
semaino “is part of a clear allusion [in the LXX Greek]
to Dan. 2:28-30, 45.
The clauses ‘revelation . . . God showed . . . what must come to pass . . . and he made known ([SIZE=+1]
shmanen[/SIZE])
’ occur together only in Daniel 2 and Rev 1:1.... the manner of the communication is defined by the context of the vision as symbolic communication by means of a dream vision.... The revelation is not abstract but pictorial.” Beale, pp. 50, 51. For those who don’t have his book, he explicates this further in his sermon (MP3) on Rev 11,
“Two Witnesses in Revelation” (⇐ link). Dennis Johnson in
Triumph of the Lamb concurs (see footnote 6, p. 7).
All this to say that from the very opening of the Revelation we are told that this is a book to be understood by seeing and interpreting the symbols given, almost all of which are taken from the Old Testament, which is thus the key to their interpretation.
3rd point: what is the “fulness of the Gentiles”? Does it mean that after the last elect Gentile is saved, the church will be raptured –and this is the “fulness etc”? Here is a post with William Hendriksen’s view, an excellent expostition:
http://www.puritanboard.com/f46/future-state-israel-prophesied-wilhelmus-brakel-75620/#post963175. Hendriksen’s piece is a bit long, but it’s good – for those who want to look deeply into the matter.
4th point: Jews / “Israel” are not “deaf across the board” to hearing & heeding the Gospel; many of us have been saved by Messiah.
5th point: This view is predicated on the Rapture of the Gentiles before the Tribulation – he says, “the church and Israel do not overlap”, saying once again there is a radical distinction between them. This is really baseless surmise, as the dispensationalist version of the rapture is not shown in Scripture. What is shown is the Lord calling His suffering people up to Him at His second coming, just preceding His terrible war against the beasts, satan, and those with the mark of the beast, and the subsequent great white throne judgment.
6th point: The church is meant to “escape the judgment of God” upon the nations before the end of the age – per Nelson? The judgments will continue till the end of the age, increasing mightily, and the saints will be there till the end, awaiting His return and call to them to “Come up hither!” (Rev 11:12).
7th point: Per Nelson, “144,000 [of the Jews] begin to preach”, “All Israel comes to Messiah”, those Israelites who don’t come are cast into Hell, and the remaining Jews who receive Christ reign with Him in earthly Jerusalem 1,000 years? This kind of literalism is what John spoke against; to take John literally is to interpret Revelation symbolically! Beale goes into this in his sermon linked to above.
8th point: Evidently, according to Nelson, there are more people than saved Jews on the earth during this supposed “millennial” period – where did they come from? In Rev 19:11-21, the Lord destroys all those on the earth (the saints have just been called up to Him in the clouds); the destroyed are “all men, both free and bond, both small and great” (Rev 19:18). When it is written in 19:20 that the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, verse 21 says, “And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth”. This is
all who are left on the earth after the church is called up to Christ. There are no other people left to supposedly live in the 1,000 years of the Dispensationalists’ millennium! The Dispensationalists understand Rev 19 to be Christ’s war against the antichrist & followers before His 1,000 year reign in Jerusalem. The Dispensationalists have this fiction about the “Tribulation saints” – those converted after the rapture of the church and
left behind on the earth during the 1,000 years. But this is not in the Bible.
But it has an aura of excitement, and the
Left Behind books (as well the earlier
Late Great Planet Earth) made it seem feasible to many, even though it cannot be Scripturally sustained. There is a big industry supporting this view, but it lulls the saints with the thought they will evade the coming great tribulation that shall try us all, and that is a lie. It also wickedly gives people the idea that they may repent after the rapture. It is a
wicked lie to the faithful because many will be caught unprepared, expecting to be “raptured” and instead plunged into extreme suffering (it is coming folks, equal to what we see in Syria, Nigeria, Afghanistan, North Korea etc – and worse) and resulting confusion, as this was not supposed to happen! We Reformed and Presbyterian are not much better off, ‘cause we think it is far away –
far, far away – and also are not mentally and spiritually prepared. Not many can see the economy about to tank (how can one not see this?) and the resulting civil disorder? But that’s just the beginning of our troubles. I’ll be posting a thread about this shortly. Bottom line: walk close to Christ, and think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you (1 Peter 4:12).
Hopes this helps with your friend, Leah.