I've had an ongoing evangelistic dialog with a couple from Germany--humanists but seriously seeking the truth and wanting to know God (if there is a God). They have responded well to presuppositional apologetics and have moved toward the kingdom. However, they have not entered. If they should come to the point of wanting to commit themselves to God, what alternative is there to an "Ask Jesus into your heart" routine? I'd like to make "grace alone" clear but yet make sure that they understand the concept of lordship. Is there some kind of canned prayer that avoids both easy-believism and works righteousness?
An alternative to "Ask Jesus into Your Heart?"
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jambo
Puritan Board Senior
The idea of "asking Jesus into your heart" is not helpful. Instead note the preaching of Jesus which was basically "repent for the kingdom is at hand" whilst in the book of Acts Paul states that God commands all men everywhere to repent. Other elements are that Jesus has been made both Lord and Christ. There is no hope except calling out to God. There are no words that can be used except the persons own heartfelt words that he prays. If the Holy Spirit is convicting him then he will find the words to say.
I would also keep in mind two key points:-
1. "No one comes to the Son unless the Father draws him" (Jn 6.44)
2. It is the Holy Spirit's role to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn 16.8)
If neither of these two things happen then despite the best reasoned arguements and the clearest presentation of the gospel, they will never be converted. If one of these two things happens then the other will also occur and as I said above there is no set prayer to pray or pattern of words to use. The convicted person will find the words from his own heart.
I would tend to show that although the person may be good living the heart harbours pride, lust, greed, envy etc. If these are given free reign then wh knows what the person could end up doing.
We should pray that the Father would draw (the actual word implies being even dragged) more to the son. Humanists need to be dragged by the Holy Spirit to the sin just as the good living religious person.
I would also keep in mind two key points:-
1. "No one comes to the Son unless the Father draws him" (Jn 6.44)
2. It is the Holy Spirit's role to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn 16.8)
If neither of these two things happen then despite the best reasoned arguements and the clearest presentation of the gospel, they will never be converted. If one of these two things happens then the other will also occur and as I said above there is no set prayer to pray or pattern of words to use. The convicted person will find the words from his own heart.
I would tend to show that although the person may be good living the heart harbours pride, lust, greed, envy etc. If these are given free reign then wh knows what the person could end up doing.
We should pray that the Father would draw (the actual word implies being even dragged) more to the son. Humanists need to be dragged by the Holy Spirit to the sin just as the good living religious person.
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
I can't say that I've ever suggested to anyone, "ask Jesus into your heart". Rather, it seems that David's approach is what we see in Scripture. There are different ways, of course, that this comes up in conversation with people - but the image of "asking Jesus" into my heart is one of my being in control, and my making the invitation, in the hopes that Jesus might stoop to come in. It seems far more reasonable to discuss with people the state of their soul outside of Christ, the severity of God's justice, and the magnificence and bounty of His grace... and to offer to them that Jesus died to atone for the sins of people like them; and that those who repent of themselves, their lives, and their sin, and come to Him in faith will in no wise be cast out.
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
Embrace Christ as He is freely offered to you in the gospel.
Accept Christ as Saviour and Lord.
Accept Christ as Saviour and Lord.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Well Daniel in America we would say "Accept Christ as Savior and Lord". 
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
Well Daniel in America we would say "Accept Christ as Savior and Lord".
The heresy of dropping "u" from Saviour. Don't you realise that the Westminster Standards use proper English?
christiana
Puritan Board Senior
Well, to 'accept Christ' also puts the person in the control seat, does it not. It is saying that we are making the choice whether to accept Him.
When the people heard Peter's sermon and asked 'what shall we do', they were told to "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".
So, should we not tell people to 'repent and bow before God, asking for His mercy'?
Knowing the best words to use in such circumstances would certainly be most helpful!
When the people heard Peter's sermon and asked 'what shall we do', they were told to "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".
So, should we not tell people to 'repent and bow before God, asking for His mercy'?
Knowing the best words to use in such circumstances would certainly be most helpful!
Quickened
Puritan Board Senior
Actually this is a good question. When dealing with someone biblically while talking about God it is always a great thing to use scriptures. Reading Christiana's post really triggered this with me.
There are no verses that say "ask Jesus into your heart".
But we do see verses that tell us to repent. To turn from sin and run to righteousness. Things of that nature.
The problem with me is that not everything sticks to memory. If someone could help me out and point out similar key verses I would be ever grateful!
Basically (to further expound on my thoughts) I see that there is that zone where people seem to get certain things but dont know what to do next. Usually based on their lack of knowledge of scripture. I think additional verses would be key.
(sorry if this doesnt make sense. I sometimes have a hard time wording what i am thinking. Even after taking time)
There are no verses that say "ask Jesus into your heart".
But we do see verses that tell us to repent. To turn from sin and run to righteousness. Things of that nature.
The problem with me is that not everything sticks to memory. If someone could help me out and point out similar key verses I would be ever grateful!
Basically (to further expound on my thoughts) I see that there is that zone where people seem to get certain things but dont know what to do next. Usually based on their lack of knowledge of scripture. I think additional verses would be key.
(sorry if this doesnt make sense. I sometimes have a hard time wording what i am thinking. Even after taking time)
This is exactly what I meant to be asking. Supposing my friends are convinced of their sinful natures and want to come to God for mercy. Supposing they ask me, "How do I go about this?" It would be helpful to know what words to suggest that they use in prayer.
christiana
Puritan Board Senior
Considering that He knows our thoughts and intents of our heart before we even speak, I would suggest to the person who wants to determine his salvation that they pray from their heart, exactly what it is that they desire, their awareness of being a sinner in need of a Saviour and being very much desirous of belonging to Jesus Christ, their Lord and Saviour forever, in this life and the next!
The words given to someone to say seem to be less compelling than the words and desires from their very own heart. It doesnt have to be long. Actually brevity is a significant factor in many biblical prayers! The important part is that the person knows they have entered a new life and will be watching for a changed nature, one that now lives for their Saviour, rather than primarily for theirself! Assure this new regenerate of your prayers for their strength as difficulties and challenges arise, which are sure to come! 'All who would live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted!"
Who and what are we truly willing to die for, and why? Soli deo gloria!
The words given to someone to say seem to be less compelling than the words and desires from their very own heart. It doesnt have to be long. Actually brevity is a significant factor in many biblical prayers! The important part is that the person knows they have entered a new life and will be watching for a changed nature, one that now lives for their Saviour, rather than primarily for theirself! Assure this new regenerate of your prayers for their strength as difficulties and challenges arise, which are sure to come! 'All who would live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted!"
Who and what are we truly willing to die for, and why? Soli deo gloria!
jaybird0827
PuritanBoard Honor Roll
"Receive and rest upon Christ alone, as he is offered in the gospel."
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
Tell them that Jesus is Lord, "Get down on your knees and confess his kingship."
Politely, though.
Thanks, I like this. The body position says something profound. I'm afraid that theological jargon will pass them by whereas what you propose won't.
sekacavelle
Inactive User
Jesus Christ had a clear answer to all who asked ,
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Well the answer to this question in truth is that one must do the Law and fullfill its righteous requirements. Well we know that the young man left Jesus Christ empty handed.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is truth and its apologetics founded on truth.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
I dont know how this fits with your apologetics but Paul Speaking by the Holy Spirit was adamant that There are no human beings seriously seeking truth but rather all their throats are an open grave speaking lies. In my summation.
The evidence here is starkly clear, How is any humanist seeking God I want to inquire ?
Everything about and from a human being is evil completely. God is Righteous Holy and True Eternally. Nothing short of his Glory will do. Its an impossible task.
Is there a human of his own that ever did repent ?
Yes Truely a man must Repent. Turn away from evil 100%
How can it be we are sinners by nature wholey corrupt. But God demands Repentance !00% from a sincere heart. How can it be our hearts are totally evil, its impossible.
Mic 7:2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Now if Jesus Christ who is God says that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, How can the offspring of Adam who is a corrupt tree yeild good fruit humans.
Sing it with me " ITS IMPOSSIBLE"
Therefore the answer lies in the Gospel, good tidings how God himself took it upon himself flesh so as he is a Good fruit able to do and seek truth as a substitute for sinful humanity.
You see the Gospel must be preached on the foundation of truth. Once you have humans seeking truth then we dont need a saviour which is a lie.
What is impossible for a human is not with God.
So Jesus Christ is our substitution even in repentance. He acepted Baptism yet he was without sin to fullfill the Righteous demands of repenting which of ourselves we cannot do. Then He inhabits us by his Will and causes us to seek, pray, repent believe.
Salvation is of the Lord exclusively. We are receipients being made aware of the Truth, REVELATION. VESSELS OF HONOUR
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Well the answer to this question in truth is that one must do the Law and fullfill its righteous requirements. Well we know that the young man left Jesus Christ empty handed.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is truth and its apologetics founded on truth.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
I dont know how this fits with your apologetics but Paul Speaking by the Holy Spirit was adamant that There are no human beings seriously seeking truth but rather all their throats are an open grave speaking lies. In my summation.
The evidence here is starkly clear, How is any humanist seeking God I want to inquire ?
Everything about and from a human being is evil completely. God is Righteous Holy and True Eternally. Nothing short of his Glory will do. Its an impossible task.
Is there a human of his own that ever did repent ?
Yes Truely a man must Repent. Turn away from evil 100%
How can it be we are sinners by nature wholey corrupt. But God demands Repentance !00% from a sincere heart. How can it be our hearts are totally evil, its impossible.
Mic 7:2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Now if Jesus Christ who is God says that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, How can the offspring of Adam who is a corrupt tree yeild good fruit humans.
Sing it with me " ITS IMPOSSIBLE"
Therefore the answer lies in the Gospel, good tidings how God himself took it upon himself flesh so as he is a Good fruit able to do and seek truth as a substitute for sinful humanity.
You see the Gospel must be preached on the foundation of truth. Once you have humans seeking truth then we dont need a saviour which is a lie.
What is impossible for a human is not with God.
So Jesus Christ is our substitution even in repentance. He acepted Baptism yet he was without sin to fullfill the Righteous demands of repenting which of ourselves we cannot do. Then He inhabits us by his Will and causes us to seek, pray, repent believe.
Salvation is of the Lord exclusively. We are receipients being made aware of the Truth, REVELATION. VESSELS OF HONOUR
Zenas
Snow Miser
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Leslie, I would bring up baptism. Perhaps you could say something like this:
"You are saved the moment that you turn from your sin and your own way to believe in Jesus as your Savior and God. Now, that is invisible; I cannot see the moment you believe. However, God commands everyone who believes to be baptized. [Perhaps some more explanation on baptism] I want you to let me know when you want to be baptized."
The greatest difficulty in personal evangelism is what to do "at the end." After explaining the gospel and making sure they understand it, you issue a call to belief. What is the positive response to that? Well, belief. But I think we tend to want some sort of "signal" that belief occurred. That's why in broadly evangelical circles you see things like scripted sinners prayers, spiritual birth certificates in the back of tracts, etc. But baptism is a divine command and accompanied the call to salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch understood this and suggested it himself. I doubt your friends are theologically savvy enough to figure that out on their own, but you could suggest it.
"You are saved the moment that you turn from your sin and your own way to believe in Jesus as your Savior and God. Now, that is invisible; I cannot see the moment you believe. However, God commands everyone who believes to be baptized. [Perhaps some more explanation on baptism] I want you to let me know when you want to be baptized."
The greatest difficulty in personal evangelism is what to do "at the end." After explaining the gospel and making sure they understand it, you issue a call to belief. What is the positive response to that? Well, belief. But I think we tend to want some sort of "signal" that belief occurred. That's why in broadly evangelical circles you see things like scripted sinners prayers, spiritual birth certificates in the back of tracts, etc. But baptism is a divine command and accompanied the call to salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch understood this and suggested it himself. I doubt your friends are theologically savvy enough to figure that out on their own, but you could suggest it.
This makes a lot of sense to me but there are logistical problems. The guy was baptized Catholic and his wife was baptized Lutheran. They live in extreme SE Germany, near the Austrian border. There are NO evangelical churches in the area. There is one Protestant church, attended by 6 old ladies and pastored by a guy who is still spouting the ecumenical mantras he learned in seminary in the 1960's.
What do you say to them when they say that they were already baptized as infants? I lean toward credo anyway but don't want to offend them by saying that their infant sprinkling was meaningless. The second logistical problem is who will baptize them. I'm the only believer that they know and although I'm not as radically anti-feminist as some on the board, I'm not a female chauvinist sow, either. I really couldn't even think of doing it. I've tried mightily to connect with an evangelical person or church in the area, even a couple hours away, with no success whatsoever.
In a more encouraging vein, the guy (alone) will be in Ethiopia for 3 weeks in June. I'm trying to set up a dinner engagement between him and a Calvinistic professor at a theological seminary in Addis Ababa. If this goes through and if he makes a commitment then and there, the problem is solved--there's a pool at the church. However, he's still so far from the kingdom of God that I think it unlikely that he'll be ready to make the plunge that soon.
BobVigneault
Bawberator
When a person asks what he must do the key is to never go beyond what scripture says. Obviously this rule discards, "Accept him into your heart".
Go to your favorite Bible site and do a search for the phrase "have mercy". This brings up the Canaanite woman, the father of the epileptic, the two men born blind, the tax collector in the back of the temple and many more.
The exciting thing in all of these passages is that Jesus quickly responds to the cry of mercy. Now of course there is no formula involved but what we do see happening is this:
These people have all been quickened by the Spirit and have seen there deep need for Christ. They all address him as Lord, recognizing that he has the cure to their utter ruin. Out of their need and hopelessness they cry out, "Lord, have mercy on me." That is the faith that saves.
After speaking to people of our utter ruin and helplessness I then direct them to 'cry out to God for mercy'. The need is from the Spirit, the cry is from the soul as spirit cries out to Spirit. For this reason, Jesus will answer the cry for mercy - it is not an act of selfishness, it is not an act of the will, it is a 'falling upon' the truth of the Gospel and a confession of final hope in Christ alone.
This brings to mind the words of John Newton:
Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved,
How precious did that grace appear,
the hour I first believed.
Go to your favorite Bible site and do a search for the phrase "have mercy". This brings up the Canaanite woman, the father of the epileptic, the two men born blind, the tax collector in the back of the temple and many more.
The exciting thing in all of these passages is that Jesus quickly responds to the cry of mercy. Now of course there is no formula involved but what we do see happening is this:
These people have all been quickened by the Spirit and have seen there deep need for Christ. They all address him as Lord, recognizing that he has the cure to their utter ruin. Out of their need and hopelessness they cry out, "Lord, have mercy on me." That is the faith that saves.
After speaking to people of our utter ruin and helplessness I then direct them to 'cry out to God for mercy'. The need is from the Spirit, the cry is from the soul as spirit cries out to Spirit. For this reason, Jesus will answer the cry for mercy - it is not an act of selfishness, it is not an act of the will, it is a 'falling upon' the truth of the Gospel and a confession of final hope in Christ alone.
This brings to mind the words of John Newton:
Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved,
How precious did that grace appear,
the hour I first believed.
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moral necessity
Puritan Board Junior
"Lord, I turn from all saviors but you to deliver me from my sin and from God's wrath, and I trust in your promise that you will not cast me out if I come to you for such. I trust that my sins were counted as yours on the cross, and that your righteousness is counted as mine before the Father. Lord, I believe, help my unbelief."
Archlute
Puritan Board Senior
However, the heart must never be left out of the conversation.
In response the Ethiopian's request for baptism in Acts 8:37 (which I see as being an original line of Scripture), Philip stated "If you believe with all your heart you may."
Paul also, in Romans 10:9 wrote "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Let us not reject issues of the heart in reaction against a poorly phrased, but earnest evangelistic approach.
Let us also not forget that the Holy Spirit (spoken of by Paul as the "Spirit of Jesus" - disregarding for now the interesting issue of how to understand the genitive case in that phrase) does indeed inhabit our heart, in the biblical understanding of our heart being equal to our inner man.
In response the Ethiopian's request for baptism in Acts 8:37 (which I see as being an original line of Scripture), Philip stated "If you believe with all your heart you may."
Paul also, in Romans 10:9 wrote "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Let us not reject issues of the heart in reaction against a poorly phrased, but earnest evangelistic approach.
Let us also not forget that the Holy Spirit (spoken of by Paul as the "Spirit of Jesus" - disregarding for now the interesting issue of how to understand the genitive case in that phrase) does indeed inhabit our heart, in the biblical understanding of our heart being equal to our inner man.
christiana
Puritan Board Senior
Considering that 'there is none that seek after God' it must be true that only a regenerate heart is able to seek Him. If one is regenerate they are thirsting for knowledge of Him.
"Seek me and ye shall find me when ye search for me with all your heart'. Jer 29:13 Then I would suggest they read Romans and the Gospel of John.
"Seek me and ye shall find me when ye search for me with all your heart'. Jer 29:13 Then I would suggest they read Romans and the Gospel of John.
This spontaneous crying out to God for mercy once one sees his/her own state before the Almighty, this rings true. It's what I went through 3 years ago and what the genuine revival on the Isle of Lewis looked like about 50-60 years ago, according to the reports. Perhaps my question is really a non-issue. Once these people understand who God is and what their position is relative to Him, perhaps all I'll have to do is sit back and watch, then welcome them into the kingdom.
BobVigneault
Bawberator
That's been my experience. Most 'evangelists' try to make God so user friendly that no one senses a spiritual need. There must be a fear of God. There must be! Show the person the true ugliness of sin and the infinite holiness of God and then give them the good news that God has provided a substitutionary atonement. The good news is only good if they understand how bad the bad news is.
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
In other words, they "evangelize" by removing any need for the evangel - by taking out of sight any reason the unbeliever might actually have to realize a need for something different in his life. They want so desperately not to offend anyone by implying that something's wrong with them that they make their own message irrelevant. This reminds me of churches in which no discipline is ever exercised because "we don't want to drive them away, but we want them to keep coming." Such situations are utterly incompatible with Biblical teaching on evangelism OR eccleisiastical practice.
Iconoclast
Puritan Board Junior
As Bob suggested stay with scriptural examples. Psalm 51 is good if you can explain why David wrote this.
Or again Paul quotes from psalm 32 in Romans
Or again Paul quotes from psalm 32 in Romans
As Bob suggested stay with scriptural examples. Psalm 51 is good if you can explain why David wrote this.
Or again Paul quotes from psalm 32 in Romans
I like the idea of using psalms to illustrate what repentance looks like. It would necessitate also using the story of David for context. For those of us used to theological jargon, it's so easy to use it when the seeker on the other end is clueless as to what it means. This guy actually asked me what I meant by God being a person. And he's a psychologist! He's really a relentless seeker.
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