Another Big Time Pastor Forced to resign now

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Gforce9

Puritan Board Junior
Hopefully, the truth will come out to his guiltiness or innocence in the charge(s). As to his popularity, yes. As to his respectedness, that is only in pop-E circles.

The articles spells out the pagan, pragmatic ecclesiology of Willow Creek.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate

Gforce9

Puritan Board Junior
Well, just the fact that there are "Women Elders" in the church he was running is a glaring beginning. There is no true church with women elders.

I was just thinking today how privileged I am, a wicked, arrogant, and corrupt sinner, to have the law and gospel, the means of grace, a great group of men ruling, and a faithful minister of the gospel giving the good news Lord's Day by Lord's Day, that I might be conformed into the image of my good and faithful Savior. It is sad that all this is forsaken in places like Willow Creek for all manner of things that appeal to the flesh. I really am grateful for what God has given me in Westminster..... Thank God for faithful churches, sessions, and ministers.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
I am sure there will be many replies on this thread about how they are not at all surprised that this particular pastor fell since he wasn't a true pastor anyhow and his church was not a true church.

In the meantime, there have been a number of pastors within the Reformed world who have resigned or even killed themselves due to their marital unfaithfulness being exposed.

And even worse...and this makes adultery look like plain-old vanilla sin, we have whole associations of churches who have covered up news of child (physical and sexual) abuse in their churches even while focusing on tertiary issues of doctrine.

So before we stand like the Pharisee in the temple and thank God that we are not sinners like other men, we ought to simply pause and mourn and ask God to protect us and ask God's mercy on Mr. Hybels.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
 

ArminianOnceWas

Puritan Board Freshman
So before we stand like the Pharisee in the temple and thank God that we are not sinners like other men, we ought to simply pause and mourn and ask God to protect us and ask God's mercy on Mr. Hybels.

Amen, in fact, quadruple amen. This needed to be said. Too many times this board reminds me of a Pharisaic crowd, trying to split hairs to ensure ourselves we have the most proper and extreme categories faith, making it as difficult for a camel to go through an eye of a needle in order to satisfy our man-made religious kingdom. Sometimes it is such a turn-off.
 

KSon

Puritan Board Junior
Amen, in fact, quadruple amen. This needed to be said. Too many times this board reminds me of a Pharisaic crowd, trying to split hairs to ensure ourselves we have the most proper and extreme categories faith, making it as difficult for a camel to go through an eye of a needle in order to satisfy our man-made religious kingdom. Sometimes it is such a turn-off.

Painting with such a broad brush is both unhelpful and, ultimately, displays the very thing Perg's post warns against. Undoubtedly, we must look inward first, constantly repenting and confessing. We are to hunger and thirst for righteousness. We are to purge ourselves of thoughts and deeds born of the flesh.

That does not mean that we are not to make observations, nor be unprepared for the questions that come up (of which I've already fielded several, from both within and outside of the body). One thing I've learned is that, to an unbelieving, scoffing world, what they think about one of "us" they think about all of us. Unbelievers don't say, "Well, if he had a more proper ecclesiology, that would have protected him". They don't split such hairs. Rather, they lump all professing Christ-followers together, and point and scoff at "our" hypocrisy, which, ultimately, is an attempt to soothe their consciences that are piqued by their law-breaking and rebellion against their Creator.

So we must be informed, and we must be willing and able to give a response, and make appropriate, humble observations. We must be willing and able to show that theology and doctrine truly do matter. But we must do so from hearts that are acutely aware of our own bent toward self-righteousness and pet-sin minimization.
 

Ben Zartman

Puritan Board Sophomore
I am sure there will be many replies on this thread about how they are not at all surprised that this particular pastor fell since he wasn't a true pastor anyhow and his church was not a true church.

In the meantime, there have been a number of pastors within the Reformed world who have resigned or even killed themselves due to their marital unfaithfulness being exposed.

And even worse...and this makes adultery look like plain-old vanilla sin, we have whole associations of churches who have covered up news of child (physical and sexual) abuse in their churches even while focusing on tertiary issues of doctrine.

So before we stand like the Pharisee in the temple and thank God that we are not sinners like other men, we ought to simply pause and mourn and ask God to protect us and ask God's mercy on Mr. Hybels.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Well said, Perg., but surely there is warrant for exposing error--or to put it crudely, for calling a spade a spade. It is right to be thankful for standards and for faithful elders and faithful churches even while we fear, even while we walk softly before God lest we and they fall.
The fact that there are skeletons a-plenty in Reformed closets doesn't mean we have to mourn the fall of an apostate minister, as though something of value had been lost to the church.
 

Southern Presbyterian

Puritan Board Doctor
Amen, in fact, quadruple amen. This needed to be said. Too many times this board reminds me of a Pharisaic crowd, trying to split hairs to ensure ourselves we have the most proper and extreme categories faith, making it as difficult for a camel to go through an eye of a needle in order to satisfy our man-made religious kingdom. Sometimes it is such a turn-off.

*Moderation*

The PB Staff do not sit in judgment over any group other than the membership of the PB itself. Over the top rhetoric by said members can and will be judged according to board rules. Thus I refer everyone to the following link: https://www.puritanboard.com/help/9th-commandment/, and ask that we all keep this in mind before posting inflammatory or accusative statements.

Let this post serve as a general warning to all regarding these matters.

*End Moderation*
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
If his church is a false church because of women elders, then are all of the baptisms performed there retroactively invalidated?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Well, just the fact that there are "Women Elders" in the church he was running is a glaring beginning. There is no true church with women elders.
I would agree with you that only men are allowed to be Elders as per the scriptures, but was he teaching then a false Gospel message though?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Painting with such a broad brush is both unhelpful and, ultimately, displays the very thing Perg's post warns against. Undoubtedly, we must look inward first, constantly repenting and confessing. We are to hunger and thirst for righteousness. We are to purge ourselves of thoughts and deeds born of the flesh.

That does not mean that we are not to make observations, nor be unprepared for the questions that come up (of which I've already fielded several, from both within and outside of the body). One thing I've learned is that, to an unbelieving, scoffing world, what they think about one of "us" they think about all of us. Unbelievers don't say, "Well, if he had a more proper ecclesiology, that would have protected him". They don't split such hairs. Rather, they lump all professing Christ-followers together, and point and scoff at "our" hypocrisy, which, ultimately, is an attempt to soothe their consciences that are piqued by their law-breaking and rebellion against their Creator.

So we must be informed, and we must be willing and able to give a response, and make appropriate, humble observations. We must be willing and able to show that theology and doctrine truly do matter. But we must do so from hearts that are acutely aware of our own bent toward self-righteousness and pet-sin minimization.
We have to be very mindful that despite some areas of theology/practice would see as being wrong, any one who is really saved should be seen as a Brother in Christ needing our prayers.
I just hope that we are not operating as Christians as the world seems to be right now, that a Pastor is judged already guilty before any evidence given to that effect.
 

Gforce9

Puritan Board Junior
We have to be very mindful that despite some areas of theology/practice would see as being wrong, any one who is really saved should be seen as a Brother in Christ needing our prayers.
I just hope that we are not operating as Christians as the world seems to be right now, that a Pastor is judged already guilty before any evidence given to that effect.

Without passing judgment upon Bill Hybels (I've been to Willow Creek a handful of times when I was younger), it is hard to know which "gospel" is going forth from the pop-E places, especially the mega- places. It may be in fact the real gospel veiled in worldly garb or it may be something different. At this point, in spite of the articles revelation of the horrible ecclesiology (I would never attend there myself, even if it was next door), until a demonstrated denying of the faith, I would consider BH in the visible church, even if misled and misleading for so long.....

Edit: Like others have stated, I would very much like to see these type of places closed....if the Gospel isn't preached and the people of God are constantly starved, there is little point. I wonder how many of the people at such a place have heard the law and gospel and could explain either.....
 
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Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Without passing judgment upon Bill Hybels (I've been to Willow Creek a handful of times when I was younger), it is hard to know which "gospel" is going forth from the pop-E places, especially the mega- places. It may be in fact the real gospel veiled in worldly garb or it may be something different. At this point, in spite of the articles revelation of the horrible ecclesiology (I would never attend there myself, even if it was next door), until demonstrated otherwise, I would consider BH a Christian, even if misled and misleading for so long.....
I would see him in this very same light.
 

Ben Zartman

Puritan Board Sophomore
I would agree with you that only men are allowed to be Elders as per the scriptures, but was he teaching then a false Gospel message though?
Perhaps we're defining 'church' differently. I take the definition of the local assembly from LBCF 26:8 "A particular church, gathered and completely organized according to the mind of Christ.." (Italics mine).
I realize this narrows it a good deal, but we gotta define terms somewhere.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Perhaps we're defining 'church' differently. I take the definition of the local assembly from LBCF 26:8 "A particular church, gathered and completely organized according to the mind of Christ.." (Italics mine).
I realize this narrows it a good deal, but we gotta define terms somewhere.
I would define a local church as a local assembly of persons who are teaching/preaching and living out the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who uphold sound biblical doctrines/practices, and have pastors/Elders/Deacons.
 

Ben Zartman

Puritan Board Sophomore
I would define a local church as a local assembly of persons who are teaching/preaching and living out the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who uphold sound biblical doctrines/practices, and have pastors/Elders/Deacons.
Are women elders "sound biblical doctrines/practices?"
 

Gforce9

Puritan Board Junior
So is Willow Creek a legitimate church, or is it just people playing at church?


In light of the article posted above, your question is perfectly legitimate. I wish we didn't even have to have these discussions; I wish all of officers in Christ's church were faithful and above charge....
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
I am sure there will be many replies on this thread about how they are not at all surprised that this particular pastor fell since he wasn't a true pastor anyhow and his church was not a true church.

In the meantime, there have been a number of pastors within the Reformed world who have resigned or even killed themselves due to their marital unfaithfulness being exposed.

And even worse...and this makes adultery look like plain-old vanilla sin, we have whole associations of churches who have covered up news of child (physical and sexual) abuse in their churches even while focusing on tertiary issues of doctrine.

So before we stand like the Pharisee in the temple and thank God that we are not sinners like other men, we ought to simply pause and mourn and ask God to protect us and ask God's mercy on Mr. Hybels.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

This.

We are also apt to forget that the watching world tends to make no distinction whatsoever between Bill Hybels, John MacArthur, and the most faithful confessional elders. They are all considered evangelical Bible-thumpers.
There's no cause for rejoicing here.
 

PuritanCovenanter

The Joyful Curmudgeon
Staff member
I agree wholeheartedly Chris. I can count many people who I know of and personally know who fell into sin. It is always a sad situation. At the same time it seems their sin goes before them as the scripture states. King David fell and was a Prophet. It led to the inspired Psalm 51. Who knows what the Lord is doing. I am not sure anyone is truly rejoicing over the sin but maybe there will be a recovery from sin that will lead to others repenting and turning to the truth as King David stated.

(Psa 51:9) Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
(Psa 51:10) Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
(Psa 51:11) Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
(Psa 51:12) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
(Psa 51:13) Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
I've had secular lawyers tell me that everyone who is to the right of Hillary is basically the Duggar family. They won't make distinctions when they start FEMAing everyone.
 
U

Username3000

Guest
I've had secular lawyers tell me that everyone who is to the right of Hillary is basically the Duggar family. They won't make distinctions when they start FEMAing everyone.
Care to elaborate on this FEMAing, and how much you know about it. Feel free to start a new thread. I would be interested.
 
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