Answering Alan Kurschner of aomin

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jerusalem Blade

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
If I reproved Alan Kurschner for slandering a brother in Christ – and not only a brother, but an elder in God’s government – should I remain silent when a member of this board does exactly the same? (Even though a moderator graciously deleted this latter’s slander.)

Get this picture: we are an enclave of citizens of the Glorious Kingdom surrounded by enemies of our King, and thus of ourselves also. In some parts of this world our compatriots suffer imprisonment, torture, and death for our citizenship. And they come from all sectors – sub-families, if you will – rich, poor, of varying ethnicities, Baptists, Paedos, Pentecostals, Wesleyans, and on.

When Rob said, “However, I agree with you that Baptists can be true Christians, and are erring brothers”, please note I have made no mention of Baptists whatever!

But yes, at least one has to be in error on such issues as which are the best texts, paedo/credo, head coverings or no, just war/no war, revelational gifts/gifts ceased, and on. To take a stand, however, requiring that the other repent – the implication being that they are in sinful error (as opposed to simple error) – is to bring the conflict and division within the enclave. Such a matter as the “gifts” brings dangerous error into the camp (tinkering with the very stuff of revelation), and this must be remarked upon and openly taught against. Yet do not many of us have beloved friends of this very suasion, whose error we forbear and love nonetheless?

This nasty business of excluding those whom Christ paid for with the spilled drops of His heart’s blood because they differ from us in matters – such as the textual and baptism issues – not touching upon essential doctrines of the Faith is the devil’s work. And to revile and condemn them is doubly so, for those who are spiritual know that the accuser of the brethren is the one whose name means that: Satan.

We may not worship and teach with those who differ in doctrine, but we should receive them into fellowship and the love of our hearts.

The definition of “doctrinaire” as I use it presently is caring about doctrine more than people.

I much prefer Dr. White’s and Alan K.’s “railing” against manuscripts than people “railing” against their characters. When John Burgon referred to B and [size=+1]a[/size] as “depraved” he was speaking of their omissions of the precious words of the Savior. What is good for the goose is good also for the gander. I think to cut through the words of my opponents when they do such by shining light on the issues. Light dispels darkness. Reviling against people however, leads to strife and what James pronounces “wisdom [that] descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.” (3:15)

I am astonished at the lawlessness of some who call themselves “Reformed” and “Presbyterian”! Offhandedly slandering an elder in a godly church! While I am not a Reformed Baptist, those folks have done me incalculable good, and the pastor, Al Martin, has opened the heavens for me through his anointed ministry of the Word. James White is of a godly line. And for one whose heart is full of vitriol flowing forth in public defamation of character to pretend to be moved by a righteous indignation is a travesty of all that is holy.

I am glad the moderator deleted the devilish poison of slander from your post, Rob. And I urge them to keep an eye on it occurring again, and to take steps – as in the “zero tolerance” policy that was spoken of after the last attack here on Dr. White – commensurate with the offense. This is no “warcraft game” where loose-cannon gunslingers have the right to spew forth the “fires of hell” upon others with impunity – this is the Kingdom of the Holy God, whose subjects keep His commandments, and those who fail of this are disciplined by those in oversight.

Can such a resolute defender of the AV and TR/1894 as I be friends with James White? I would be glad to treat him to a meal and talk over such things in the spirit of charity. Better we learn to walk in this spirit, seeing as there are monsters thirsting for our blood all about our enclave. Monsters, I might add, some of which are of our own species, and some of whom are the elect of the Lord yet uncalled, and to whom we are to hold forth the light of the Gospel so that they may see it and come to Him who draws all His own – and gives them a new nature.

Steve
 
Last edited:

Jerusalem Blade

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
P.S.

Rob, I'm sorry if I have been too harsh in what I have said to you. You have much of value for the Body to benefit from; but please, remember that our Savior has been gentle with you in your errors and sins (as He has with me in mine), that He has been longsuffering and patient you-ward, and has not counted your iniquities against you. And as you have been given, so you are to give, even with those who differ in matters dear to you. This is the Spirit we are to walk in; this is the Spirit of Christ, who is your life.
 

JOwen

Puritan Board Junior
Jerusalem Blade, can i get the whole post in one file for my own personal study? I will PM you to give you my address.

Thanks you so very much for your hard work on this.
 

DMcFadden

Puritanboard Commissioner
Yikes, Steve!

I turned your posts into a single PDF. It weighed in at 55 pages!!! Wow! Thanks for posting your work and reflections. Since first taking Greek 36 years ago until now, most of my exposure has been to the standard text critical views. You have given us all a lot to chew on for some time.

:D
 

CalvinandHodges

Puritan Board Junior
Hi Steve:

Yes, this is fantastically good stuff! I have my own folder entitled "Rafalsky."

I make the distinction between Salvation and false teaching. Dr. White is, as far as I can think on the matter, a Christian and saved by Grace. However, we are told to "test the spirits whether they are of God." Thus, to condemn his teachings on the Critical Text and to judge him as a false teacher and "railer" on this matter is not beyond the scope of good Christian behaviour. To do so after giving good solid reasons for showing why this is the case is exactly what the Scriptures require of us.

What makes the KJO group far out is that their reasons are not logical nor Biblical. Thus, they look like bizarre radicals and hurt the cause they pretend to uphold.

No offense was taken from your post.

BTW: I think it should be noted that Kurschner quotes Wallace's finding that there are about 1,839 differences between the TR and MJ. However, since there are about 181,000 words in the entire New Testament this brings the differences to about 1%. Can one argue for majority readings in the KJB based on the fact that the text used by the King James translators agree with the Majority Text 99% of the time?

Though I do not think that Erasmus, Beza, Stephens and the others who collated the TR wrote down their methodology - it does not seem to me that the TR necessarily used only majority readings.

-just some thoughts.

Blessings brother!

-CH
 
Last edited:

CalvinandHodges

Puritan Board Junior
Greetings:

From a recent email response Mr. Kurschner, who is often cited on James White's "Alpha and Omega ministry" seems unwilling to respond. Here is the whole of it:

My email to him:

Grace and Peace to you,

In September of this year you wrote an article giving 8 reasons why KJVO advocates should not use "majority principles" in their textual criticism. Here is the article:

8 Reasons Why It Is Fallacious for KJVO Advocates to Invoke the Majority Rule - Pros Apologian

About 9 days later an answer to your, rather fallacious, article appeared on the PuritanBoard by Steve Ralfalsky here:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/answering-alan-kurschner-aomin-24839/

Three months have gone by and not a word in response has been forthcoming from you. Since you were so quick to castigate Mr. Ralfalsky (and myself - Rob Wieland a.k.a on the PuritanBoard as "CH" or "CalvinandHodges") in a previous article, I find it strange that you have been silent.

At least I had the humility to admit a mistake. Apparently, your pride does not lend itself in that direction?

Blessings,

Rob Wieland - "CH" or "CalvinandHodges"

His response:

Robert,

You presume that one must respond to every critique given on the internet. You are wrong. What is fallacious is thinking that if one does not respond therefore they must not have an answer and the other one is correct. Further, Ralfalsky has written even an earlier response than the one that you have cited which I have not responded. If in fact, I do respond (and have time) I may respond to the first one.

I read the one that you cited and I beginning to think that KJVO advocates believe that the majority of words in their articles wins an argument! :)

Odd that you would use the term "castigate" since it is KJVO articles on the Puritan Board that seem to deginerate into castigation of those who oppose the TR.

At any rate, thanks for writing. Truly, one wonders if Ralfalsky has spent time in Revelation critical studies? And that does not include reading secondary sources.

Alan
Though I never "presumed" that Mr. Kurschner had to reply to every critique given on the internet (though I wonder how many he actually got?) his "accusation" then is groundless. It does seem to me that Steve's gracious and scholarly response does warrent such from Mr. Kurschner.

Mr. Kurschner's actions appear to me to be another example of how AOMIN is unable to answer substansive issues. I have written back to Mr. Kurschner indicating such.

Grace and Peace,

-Rob Wieland - a.k.a. "CH" or "CalvinandHodge"
 

Jerusalem Blade

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Jurassic Church?

In the House of Light there is a great chamber called The Hall of Learning, where holy servants of the High King gather to exchange intelligence and to search out matters. This they do with great mutual respect and kindness, knowing that the bonds of love are the basis of their fellowship, and that learning is secondary. Whenever the bonds of love are broken in that Hall its participants immediately disperse, learning being impossible at that moment. But when these bonds of ardent love are profound and manifest, how wondrous to see divines and seers search out, and test, and prove what be the things of God, and what not, and what cannot with certainty be ascertained at that time. There is a thrilling joy which permeates that chamber, blazing with the light of Heaven.

There is also The Hall of Worship, even though all is worship, yet it is of a more formal quality, ceremonial rites unto the King, royal, even as it is in Heaven. There is also The Hall of War. Other of the Halls are: Feasting, Prayer, Healing, and Rest. [From A Great And Terrible Love]

I want it to be known by all and sundry I strongly disapprove Robert Wieland’s [CalvinandHodge’s] spirit of hostility to Alan Kurschner (and in other places, to James White), as though these men were enemies rather than brothers! As though the Lord had not said, “Above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.” (1 Pet 4:8) And,

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. (Col 3:12-14)​

I see too much of this “Jurassic Church” phenomena – where men bite and devour one another – and the holy Name is profaned in the eyes of some who observe. Too often men proceed in their own spirit – infected with meanness and hauteur from the “old man” – and think they walk in the Spirit of Christ and of holiness, while the root of bitterness that holds them is exposed to all. It is easy to justify such attitudes by looking down on the views and actions of others as though we were better then they, just because we think our views more in accord with truth. Or perhaps they have offended us in the past, and we are driven by a spirit of vengeance masquerading as the reproving of error. Be it known I have no part with such ungodliness.

James White for sure, and likely Alan Kurschner (for I have heard good of him from another brother), are men who walk with the King, even as I also walk, and shall I hurl insults at them in His presence, or be party with those who do? God forbid!

I had long thought that within the Reformed camp was such a knowledge of our remaining corruption – remaining depravity, if you will – coupled with such a knowledge of God’s fervent love for us notwithstanding, that we all would walk with a humility born of self-knowledge, and a joy born of the knowledge of the grace in which we stand, so that we would look upon others as very likely not as corrupt as we ourselves surely are, but less wretched than we! I see I err.

Robert, if you know yourself to be a wretched sinner saved by the undeserved favor of the Lord, why can you not show the same graciousness to those who differ with you, or even insult you? I do not see the Spirit of Christ in your dealings with Kurschner or White, but rather that of those who opposed the Lord in His earthly sojourn. We are not to rail against others (1 Cor 5:11), but “be gentle unto all men” (2 Tim 2:24).

RAIL: “To express objections or criticisms in bitter, harsh, or abusive language.” (American Heritage Dictionary, 3rd Ed.)

Mod, would you please close this thread, that it not be used as a platform to assail other saints. Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top