Assisted Suicide??

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Solparvus said:
It stunned me too.

I'm looking at this and thinking, how many possible pre-birth medical advances could have been made if we as a society held all life as precious? Our society has incentive to stay planted at its current level of care and not move forward.

Likewise, there is going to be less and less incentive to advance in life-extending or life-enhancing medical developments, because this is an easy cop-out.

If low birth rates in the developed world were not enough, we've found a "kind" way to curb the current population.

And we know this will not favor the disadvantaged; or shall we say, "the weaker species." Maybe someone out there is thinking by "assisted" "suicide" we can finally realize the Ubermensch.

Secularism is a culture that loves death. Truly tragic. This is what happens when man does not self-identify as the image of God.
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Yes. Categories of illness are gradually expanding to include more in these various “medical” death protocols. The babies killed are getting older while the aged being killed are getting younger and healthier.
 
Last spring my biological mother (yes, that phrase is doing a LOT of work that I don't care to go into here) was hit by a car as she crossed the street in Colorado Springs.

She had massive brain damage and was unable to even breathe without mechanical ventilation. After hearing the prognosis from the neurological staff, and consulting with family and my pastor, the decision was made to remove the ventilator. She was gone within 30 minutes.

I still struggle with this decision. Per medical advice, she was never going to recover and was only being kept alive artificially.

I've heard the phrase, "Not prolonging life, but prolonging death", and that idea helped.

But did I murder my mother? Did I assist in suicide? Or did I merely let a dead person finish dying? God will judge, and I am not sure that the judgment will be in my favor.
 
SeanPatrickCornell said:
Last spring my biological mother (yes, that phrase is doing a LOT of work that I don't care to go into here) was hit by a car as she crossed the street in Colorado Springs.

She had massive brain damage and was unable to even breathe without mechanical ventilation. After hearing the prognosis from the neurological staff, and consulting with family and my pastor, the decision was made to remove the ventilator. She was gone within 30 minutes.

I still struggle with this decision. Per medical advice, she was never going to recover and was only being kept alive artificially.

I've heard the phrase, "Not prolonging life, but prolonging death", and that idea helped.

But did I murder my mother? Did I assist in suicide? Or did I merely let a dead person finish dying? God will judge, and I am not sure that the judgment will be in my favor.
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I think all of you did the right thing, seeing that she died 30 minutes after her breathing assistance was taken away. That showed it was it that was breathing for her. I had to agree to put my dad on a morphine drip and watch him die. So I know where you’re coming from.
 
SeanPatrickCornell said:
Last spring my biological mother (yes, that phrase is doing a LOT of work that I don't care to go into here) was hit by a car as she crossed the street in Colorado Springs.

She had massive brain damage and was unable to even breathe without mechanical ventilation. After hearing the prognosis from the neurological staff, and consulting with family and my pastor, the decision was made to remove the ventilator. She was gone within 30 minutes.

I still struggle with this decision. Per medical advice, she was never going to recover and was only being kept alive artificially.

I've heard the phrase, "Not prolonging life, but prolonging death", and that idea helped.

But did I murder my mother? Did I assist in suicide? Or did I merely let a dead person finish dying? God will judge, and I am not sure that the judgment will be in my favor.
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That sounds awful. I'm sorry you had to go through it. I'm under no illusions that a few digital words can accomplish anything, but nonetheless it's pretty clear to me that, however difficult the situation, you unequivocally did not murder your mother or assist in suicide. That doesn't seem like it's even open to question. The dozen or so posts in this thread that highlight the vast difference between exercising a very lawful choice not to extend life and intentionally ending it - this is exactly what they're talking about, and you are squarely in the former camp.
 
Ploutos said:
That sounds awful. I'm sorry you had to go through it. I'm under no illusions that a few digital words can accomplish anything, but nonetheless it's pretty clear to me that, however difficult the situation, you unequivocally did not murder your mother or assist in suicide. That doesn't seem like it's even open to question. The dozen or so posts in this thread that highlight the vast difference between exercising a very lawful choice not to extend life and intentionally ending it - this is exactly what they're talking about, and you are squarely in the former camp.
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I read that if you wonder if you made the right choice and it grieves you, you made the right choice.
 
Letting someone die naturally isn't assisted suicide from what I understand. Intentionally killing him is. In the legion post I was in, where I used to live, there was a chaplain whose cousin was in a car accident. She ended up paralyzed from the waist down. According to him she was intentionally 'medically terminated' because she would never walk again. That is immoral. The legality of it is dubious unless she lived in Canada, but this man made it sound like she was terminated and he was all for it.
 
LightBringer said:
Letting someone die naturally isn't assisted suicide from what I understand. Intentionally killing him is. In the legion post I was in, where I used to live, there was a chaplain whose cousin was in a car accident. She ended up paralyzed from the waist down. According to him she was intentionally 'medically terminated' because she would never walk again. That is immoral. The legality of it is dubious unless she lived in Canada, but this man made it sound like she was terminated and he was all for it.
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She was medically terminated after being rendered a paraplegic? I don't want to portray euthanasia as being worse in the case you cited as though I would consider medical termination in the more extreme cases any more legitimate;, there is never a justification to actively destroy God's temple. But in the example you cited, we aren't talking about someone who would have to live the rest of their life in an iron lung, or perhaps suffer for years and years with the most agonizing pain imaginable. On the contrary, a person with paraplegia can live a happy, productive life. They can live independently and even have children.

See, this just highlights yet another potential problem with legalized euthanasia. The more comfortable a godless, hard-hearted society becomes with the idea, the cases in which people would be willing to employ it becomes progressively less severe.
 
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I suspect this cousin was in Canada. Their laws are pretty depraved when it comes to dealing with disabled and injured persons. They kill them instead of healing them with a program called MAID-- medical assistance in dying.
 
LightBringer said:
I suspect this cousin was in Canada. Their laws are pretty depraved when it comes to dealing with disabled and injured persons. They kill them instead of healing them with a program called MAID-- medical assistance in dying.
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It is horrible. A couple in our church had a brother who was in the hospital with cancer. They said that the doctors would repeatedly bring up the option of MAID, almost pressuring the family to do it.

Keep in mind, in a socialist system, it is cheaper to dispose of people than to care for them.

I'm at the point where I'm not even sure I want God to be merciful to our Country. If we were invaded by a foreign power and subjugated, I would think "we fully deserve this".
 
TylerRay said:
The term "assisted suicide" is misleading. It's not a doctor helping someone kill himself; it's the doctor killing the person. Is it ok to hire someone to murder you? No. Is it ok to murder people who are suffering? No.
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This touches on another major concern in that we begin to utilize those in the medical profession to actively end human life. Bad idea.
 
Miss Marple said:
This touches on another major concern in that we begin to utilize those in the medical profession to actively end human life. Bad idea.
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It's a pedantic quibble, but in a world where abortion is permissible, this is not where medical professionals begin the process of actively ending human life. The euthanasia ethic is inseparable from the abortion ethic.

I'm not implying that you think otherwise but just wanted to make that point.
 
This slide into the moral morass of euthanasia was inevitable when abortion was legalized. It a short step from ending the life of someone not yet born to ending the life of someone gravely ill.
 
LightBringer said:
This slide into the moral morass of euthanasia was inevitable when abortion was legalized. It a short step from ending the life of someone not yet born to ending the life of someone gravely ill.
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And a short step from there to ending the life of someone gravely inconvenient.
 
Babies are viewed as gravely inconvenient by many. That is why they are killed instead brought into the world. So yes, 'inconvenient' persons are already snuffed out.
 
I have been ruminating over a few things since this thread was established both as a deacon and a person who has witnessed suffering. Specifically, what possible countermeasures besides the obviously needed political action are there for a Christian? Looking at adjacent issues related to life/health beyond politics and gleaning from what has been done there may shed some light. This will be all the more important as "right to die" morphs into "duty to die" either by government fiat or social expectations.

1. Hunger: This has been, statistically speaking, eradicated in a large part of the developed world. The developing world is still struggling but has been rapidly catching up the past few decades. Led by the US and the rest of the Anglosphere, India isn't far behind, the problem is one of obesity. Before it was eradicated, Christians played a large role in getting food to those who needed it.

2. Abortion: Christians continue to champion adoption all across the world. They have also supported pregnancy clinics. Christians have placed themselves at abortuaries to offer help.

3. Medical Care: Hospitals historically have been the domain of Christians including the treatment of people without the ability to pay.

Can Christians, and others of right mind on this issue, create places and help for those who would be forced kill themselves? We know this scourge will not just be consuming people with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. It is moving in on the young, mentally ill, paraplegics, and others with non-life threatening conditions. I don't think we are far off from it becoming more difficult to put down a pet than a person as long as "consent" is given. Any thoughts on this expanding ministry/mission field?
 
ZackF said:
1. Hunger: This has been, statistically speaking, eradicated in a large part of the developed world. The developing world is still struggling but has been rapidly catching up the past few decades. Led by the US and the rest of the Anglosphere, India isn't far behind, the problem is one of obesity. Before it was eradicated, Christians played a large role in getting food to those who needed it.
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I'm not sure about the word "eradicated," even statistically speaking. See this article by the WHO.
 
pgwolv said:
Sorry, I misread your statement
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No worries. My point was that at all of these points, there has been concerted action on behalf of Christians. State sanctioned Euthanasia at the scale we are increasingly seeing it is something new.
 
ZackF said:
No worries. My point was that at all of these points, there has been concerted action on behalf of Christians. State sanctioned Euthanasia at the scale we are increasingly seeing it is something new.
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Indeed; to me, one of the most pertinent points in the article cited in the post above was the following:
4. Legalising assisted suicide will reduce the rate of investment in high quality palliative care. Instead of spending time debating assisted suicide, politicians should be discussing how to improve this kind of end-of-life care.

Baroness Finlay cites a study conducted of European palliative care services: “…it showed that there were greater improvements in palliative care in those countries that haven’t changed the law [on assisted dying] than there were in countries that have changed the law.”
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ZackF said:
I have been ruminating over a few things since this thread was established both as a deacon and a person who has witnessed suffering. Specifically, what possible countermeasures besides the obviously needed political action are there for a Christian? Looking at adjacent issues related to life/health beyond politics and gleaning from what has been done there may shed some light. This will be all the more important as "right to die" morphs into "duty to die" either by government fiat or social expectations.

1. Hunger: This has been, statistically speaking, eradicated in a large part of the developed world. The developing world is still struggling but has been rapidly catching up the past few decades. Led by the US and the rest of the Anglosphere, India isn't far behind, the problem is one of obesity. Before it was eradicated, Christians played a large role in getting food to those who needed it.

2. Abortion: Christians continue to champion adoption all across the world. They have also supported pregnancy clinics. Christians have placed themselves at abortuaries to offer help.

3. Medical Care: Hospitals historically have been the domain of Christians including the treatment of people without the ability to pay.

Can Christians, and others of right mind on this issue, create places and help for those who would be forced kill themselves? We know this scourge will not just be consuming people with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. It is moving in on the young, mentally ill, paraplegics, and others with non-life threatening conditions. I don't think we are far off from it becoming more difficult to put down a pet than a person as long as "consent" is given. Any thoughts on this expanding ministry/mission field?
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There are definitely spaces where Christians are historically involved but will likely need to intensify the work. Just to add, perhaps,
4. Suicide prevention work (eg the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team)
5. Disability rights (eg the work of Heidi Crowter and the 'Don't Screen Us Out' campaign)
 
Sovereign Grace said:
Okay, what if someone has terminal cancer and they decide to stop taking meds? Isn't this along those same lines, instead of taking meds to prolong their life, they refuse to take them to die sooner. I know they are not using a doctor to assist them in the scenario. I'm not disagreeing with you, just asking as this scenario is something I have pondered on some time.
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This is passive. Assisted suicide is active.
 
CathH said:
There are definitely spaces where Christians are historically involved but will likely need to intensify the work. Just to add, perhaps,
4. Suicide prevention work (eg the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team)
5. Disability rights (eg the work of Heidi Crowter and the 'Don't Screen Us Out' campaign)
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In addition, there’s a group of disability activists called Not Dead Yet who are very vocal about what they perceive as societal pressure to just go away permanently.
notdeadyet.org

Not Dead Yet

The Resistance
notdeadyet.org
 
CathH said:
There are definitely spaces where Christians are historically involved but will likely need to intensify the work. Just to add, perhaps,
4. Suicide prevention work (eg the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team)
5. Disability rights (eg the work of Heidi Crowter and the 'Don't Screen Us Out' campaign)
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Universal healthcare is something I would also like to see Christians (particularly those in America) get on board with. Everyone should have access to the best healthcare available irrespective of their ability to pay. Better social programs for the weakest among us is another. It's almost like American Christians have forgotten how to be difference makers for positive change. Christians led the abolition movements in the 1800s, and played a large role in getting women the right to vote.

I don't want euthanasia to become legal in my state. But whether or not it does will have nothing to do with most of the Christians here. It's because of the failure of Christians that homosexual marriage and abortion are legal. The majority of Christians today are far more concerned with prosperity for themselves and getting "raptured" than in making any kind of real difference in society. They are the salt of nothing, and a light only to themselves.
 
Alive in Christ said:
I don't want euthanasia to become legal in my state. But whether or not it does will have nothing to do with most of the Christians here. It's because of the failure of Christians that homosexual marriage and abortion are legal. The majority of Christians today are far more concerned with prosperity for themselves and getting "raptured" than in making any kind of real difference in society. They are the salt of nothing, and a light only to themselves.
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Abortion and gay marriage are due to Christian failure but euthanasia will not be?
 
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