Atheism and Speaking in Tongues
- Thread starter kalawine
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DonP
Puritan Board Junior
Too bad they couldn't experience this before they were going to the pentecostal church so they knew.
It is common in other form and sources of hysteria too.
Like I said in another thread, I have no problem with what Benny Hin does, except he says it is the Holy Spirit, when it is just the natural human response to certain stimulations
It is common in other form and sources of hysteria too.
Like I said in another thread, I have no problem with what Benny Hin does, except he says it is the Holy Spirit, when it is just the natural human response to certain stimulations
cmaglaughlin
Puritan Board Freshman
My history with tongues
My experience with tongues involves some interesting tid bits. First heard the utterances the day after my spiritual rebirth at a Full Gospel Businessmen's Dinner featuring a young catholic evangelist, Larry Tomzcak. Thought what I heard was pretty neat. Then the host, Cosmo deBartolo, invited me up on stage to give "witness" to a physical healing I had received the week before. Little did he know that, yes, God had healed my gang green leg, but before I was born again. I was going to tell everyone about how the Lord had not only healed me, but "saved" me just the day before. Speaking before 1000 people was no big thing for me, either, since He had healed me of stuttering as a child and stage fright as an adult. I was ready to "unload" for Jesus. Stepping up to the mike, and glancing over the crowd, I knew what I was going to say. But nothing, absolutely nothing, came out of my mouth. I could not speak one word. Stares galore. Tick, tick, tick. Then it happened. I got zapped. I knew nothing about being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Now there I am, balling like a newborn, shaking like I had just put my entire body in an electrical outlet. Wave upon wave of Niagara-like gushing came over me. I literally could not take any more "God" or I would die. I ran back into my mother's arms and continued to quake, inside and out. All I knew was I knew He knew me. After the glory "storm" subsided, I enjoyed hearing a young catholic tell of his similar experience. He then invited anyone to come forward who wanted more of God. I ran to the altar and waited expectantly for more. I'm thinking, how is He going to top the first act? Just when I was ready to go back to my seat, at peace, but no additional blessing, it happened again! I could feel it starting in my feet, and it slowly worked it's way up my entire body, and yes, along the way, opening the flood gates of my tear ducts, and electrifying my entire being with His loving presence. No tongues, just filling upon filling, and I had to beg Him, no more, or my "first" day WILL be my "last!" I had not been in church for 10 years. So, the next day my brother took me to a Kathryn Kuhlman service. Being a "new" Christian, I hardly understood any of the terminology, but I did know that God had followed me over to Miss Kuhlman's service and resided in and upon that woman. I ended up singing in her choir for several years. Her own mother, who was a very quiet and non-spiritual lady, once heard Kathryn speak at a service, and went forward for "more of God," too. She all of a sudden started singing in a heavenly language. Beautiful beyond description. Kathryn knew "it" was of God, because her mother had never been able to carry a tune or sing on key her entire life. Kathryn knew tongues were real, when they were of God, but never spoke in tongues or allowed anyone to do so in her meetings, or they were bodily, if necessary, removed from the auditorium. She said the Holy Spirit never interrupts Himself. My beloved pastor, Dr. D. James Kennedy, believed tongues were real, if they "were of God." Dr. Walter Martin testified to the same, after hearing a message in tongues interpreted, and the long and involved prophetic utterance came true, to the letter, names, dates, locations, etc. Please don't use this thread to "harp" on any particular ministry, unless you were there and know more than I do, which I doubt. My reason for using the "overdone" topic of tongues was to vent my frustration over hearing so much negative talk about those who don't think like us. I might sound like Reggie White, but kudos to the Baptists for their evangelism, cheers to charismatics for their enthusiasm, great thanks to the Pentecostals for their music and lively worship, blessing and honor to Reformed Presbyterians for their doctrine and scholarship, and last, but not least, dittos to anyone who reads my ramblings, and still "loves me in Christ!"
My experience with tongues involves some interesting tid bits. First heard the utterances the day after my spiritual rebirth at a Full Gospel Businessmen's Dinner featuring a young catholic evangelist, Larry Tomzcak. Thought what I heard was pretty neat. Then the host, Cosmo deBartolo, invited me up on stage to give "witness" to a physical healing I had received the week before. Little did he know that, yes, God had healed my gang green leg, but before I was born again. I was going to tell everyone about how the Lord had not only healed me, but "saved" me just the day before. Speaking before 1000 people was no big thing for me, either, since He had healed me of stuttering as a child and stage fright as an adult. I was ready to "unload" for Jesus. Stepping up to the mike, and glancing over the crowd, I knew what I was going to say. But nothing, absolutely nothing, came out of my mouth. I could not speak one word. Stares galore. Tick, tick, tick. Then it happened. I got zapped. I knew nothing about being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Now there I am, balling like a newborn, shaking like I had just put my entire body in an electrical outlet. Wave upon wave of Niagara-like gushing came over me. I literally could not take any more "God" or I would die. I ran back into my mother's arms and continued to quake, inside and out. All I knew was I knew He knew me. After the glory "storm" subsided, I enjoyed hearing a young catholic tell of his similar experience. He then invited anyone to come forward who wanted more of God. I ran to the altar and waited expectantly for more. I'm thinking, how is He going to top the first act? Just when I was ready to go back to my seat, at peace, but no additional blessing, it happened again! I could feel it starting in my feet, and it slowly worked it's way up my entire body, and yes, along the way, opening the flood gates of my tear ducts, and electrifying my entire being with His loving presence. No tongues, just filling upon filling, and I had to beg Him, no more, or my "first" day WILL be my "last!" I had not been in church for 10 years. So, the next day my brother took me to a Kathryn Kuhlman service. Being a "new" Christian, I hardly understood any of the terminology, but I did know that God had followed me over to Miss Kuhlman's service and resided in and upon that woman. I ended up singing in her choir for several years. Her own mother, who was a very quiet and non-spiritual lady, once heard Kathryn speak at a service, and went forward for "more of God," too. She all of a sudden started singing in a heavenly language. Beautiful beyond description. Kathryn knew "it" was of God, because her mother had never been able to carry a tune or sing on key her entire life. Kathryn knew tongues were real, when they were of God, but never spoke in tongues or allowed anyone to do so in her meetings, or they were bodily, if necessary, removed from the auditorium. She said the Holy Spirit never interrupts Himself. My beloved pastor, Dr. D. James Kennedy, believed tongues were real, if they "were of God." Dr. Walter Martin testified to the same, after hearing a message in tongues interpreted, and the long and involved prophetic utterance came true, to the letter, names, dates, locations, etc. Please don't use this thread to "harp" on any particular ministry, unless you were there and know more than I do, which I doubt. My reason for using the "overdone" topic of tongues was to vent my frustration over hearing so much negative talk about those who don't think like us. I might sound like Reggie White, but kudos to the Baptists for their evangelism, cheers to charismatics for their enthusiasm, great thanks to the Pentecostals for their music and lively worship, blessing and honor to Reformed Presbyterians for their doctrine and scholarship, and last, but not least, dittos to anyone who reads my ramblings, and still "loves me in Christ!"
Scott1
Puritanboard Commissioner
It's easy to have the purpose of all this get lost. I would like to take the time to engage the narrator of the video on many of the assumptions she is apparently operating under.
There is an undue emphasis on going to a place to "get excited about God." Something that a Christian needs to realize very quickly is that God is everywhere, always and not reserved for 30 minutes, at scheduled times of exuberance.
Without getting into the arguments for tongues ceasing or their purpose in light of the completed canon of Scripture (that has been discussed on other threads), I Cor 14 tells us at least one of the purposes of tongues was as a sign to unbelievers.
What I see more in the video is tongues being used as an essential sign of "worship," a focus of corporate worship, the highest priority item of worship. A careful reading of I Cor 14 will show that every one of these is out of accord with Scripture- in Corinth then as it is now.
"Tongues" were never intended to be the focus of corporate worship (cf I Cor 14 and 15 following), they were never to be the "highest priority" gift (prophecy "teaching in a known tongue God's Word is) and they seemed to be especially a sign for nonbelievers, not the ordinary means of grace for believers.
Another important truth is that tongues were never intended to be a replacement for Scripture that is already available in the congregation's known tongue.
So, the assumptions and applications here are out-of-order (as they were at the Corinthian Church Paul addressed).
There is an undue emphasis on going to a place to "get excited about God." Something that a Christian needs to realize very quickly is that God is everywhere, always and not reserved for 30 minutes, at scheduled times of exuberance.
Without getting into the arguments for tongues ceasing or their purpose in light of the completed canon of Scripture (that has been discussed on other threads), I Cor 14 tells us at least one of the purposes of tongues was as a sign to unbelievers.
What I see more in the video is tongues being used as an essential sign of "worship," a focus of corporate worship, the highest priority item of worship. A careful reading of I Cor 14 will show that every one of these is out of accord with Scripture- in Corinth then as it is now.
"Tongues" were never intended to be the focus of corporate worship (cf I Cor 14 and 15 following), they were never to be the "highest priority" gift (prophecy "teaching in a known tongue God's Word is) and they seemed to be especially a sign for nonbelievers, not the ordinary means of grace for believers.
Another important truth is that tongues were never intended to be a replacement for Scripture that is already available in the congregation's known tongue.
So, the assumptions and applications here are out-of-order (as they were at the Corinthian Church Paul addressed).
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For cmaglaughlin: I've never been there, never experienced what you did. However, it is good to see that you have the courage to share this with us. Not many members would. There certainly are abuses in both Reformed and Pentecostal traditions; may we rationally sort out the issues. May we retain what is good and grow up from there.
PresbyDane
Puritanboard Doctor
hhmmm 
not surpricing
not surpricing
Scott1
Puritanboard Commissioner
I'm not sure what your biblical understanding is in relation to "spiritual rebirth"
Scripture teaches that women are not in teaching authority in Christ's church, (nor are men with unscriptural divorce as was also true with this person). [I'm not saying God cannot use disobedient or ignorant people who would bear false witness as to their profession of spiritual authority to work some good through it], but understand how offensive this is to God.
It is not acceptable to countenance the sin because God worked something good out of it.
Many of us (myself included) have had unexplainable experiences. We cannot deny they happened, because they did.
I have come to understand, though, that we must interpret "experience" in light of God's Word. Things are not always what they seem, particularly through the cloud of sin that so easily besets us.
The regulative principle is a principle of Scripture given by a Holy God to His creatures to worship him according to the ways He has specifically prescribed in His Word. It is sin to imagine otherwise.
No one can take away from someone's "experience." But, for a Christian he must not interpret them in the vanity of his own imagination, but must do so in the context of the Holy Spirit speaking through Scripture.
We must worship God in spirit, and in truth... not according to our experiences.
(and the Westminster Standards you profess are very clear in summarizing the doctrine of Scripture to say this, also).
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
I can understand what she's talking about. The same emotions I felt in charismatic worship in my old AOG days, were the same emotions produced by great secular music or even movies. Didn't make me an atheist. It just made me look for something much more real and solid, and I found it in the Reformed Faith. 
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