Atheist tells God he can make man...

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JM

Puritan Board Doctor
An atheist scientist came to God and said, "We've figured out how to make a man without you."

God said, "OK, let me see you do it."

So the atheist bent down to the ground and scooped up a handful. But God stopped him and said, "Oh, no you don't. Get your own dirt!"
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Please brothers and sisters let us stop posting these jokes that put words in God's mouth. I realize that no offense is intended but it is a clear violation of the third commandment.

WLC
Q. 113. What are the sins forbidden in the third commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the third commandment are, the not using of God's name as is required; and the abuse of it in an ignorant, vain, irreverent, profane, superstitious, or wicked mentioning or otherwise using his titles, attributes, ordinances, or works, by blasphemy, perjury; all sinful cursings, oaths, vows, and lots; violating of our oaths and vows, if lawful; and fulfilling them, if of things unlawful; murmuring and quarreling at, curious prying into, and misapplying of God's decrees and providences; misinterpreting, misapplying, or any way perverting the word, or any part of it, to profane jests, curious or unprofitable questions, vain janglings, or the maintaining of false doctrines; abusing it, the creatures, or anything contained under the name of God, to charms, or sinful lusts and practices; the maligning, scorning, reviling, or any wise opposing of God's truth, grace, and ways; making profession of religion in hypocrisy, or for sinister ends; being ashamed of it, or a shame to it, by unconformable, unwise, unfruitful, and offensive walking, or backsliding from it.
 

JM

Puritan Board Doctor
I'm not trying to be funny now, but would this be ok?

An atheist scientist came to God and said, "We've figured out how to make a man without you."

God might say something like, "OK, let me see you do it."

So the atheist bent down to the ground and scooped up a handful. But God might stop him and say something like, "Oh, no you don't. Get your own dirt!"
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Jason:

Joking around in the context of the name of God, including putting words in His mouth, however true they might be, brings God down to our level and implies that He is fodder for levity.
 

MarieP

Puritan Board Senior
Please brothers and sisters let us stop posting these jokes that put words in God's mouth. I realize that no offense is intended but it is a clear violation of the third commandment.
In all seriousness and honesty, I'm not seeing why this is inappropriate. The point is that God made the dirt too. It's presuppositionalist humor at its core!

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of much "religious humor" about God. But I think there is some that has a point, (ie, the one where the rich man goes to heaven and takes his gold with him, and he's told, "Pavement, you brought pavement?")

You are right that there is too much levity about the things of God, but I'm not certain this was one of those times- besides, it's not so much a laugh out loud joke but a "point taken" one.
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Marie:

I understand the point of the joke and I, in fact, agree with that point. But any time you put words in God's mouth, truth or not, is a violation of the third commandment. Did God say that, ever? No. He has spoken: in His creation and His Word. That is where He speaks and I dare not add anything to it.
 

Andrew P.C.

Puritan Board Junior
Rev. Daniel Kok:

When I read this post I thought it was quite funny. However, I scrolled down to see your post and was convicted. You are right. We Mustn't joke around with the name of God period. Thanks for the post.
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
I understood the irreverence to be directed at the atheist, not at God.
The point is that God is never to be "a player" in a joke. Even if His words are consistent with His character, He must not be portrayed...in doing so we are badly overstepping our place as His creatures, and being irreverent.

That said, this joke is also irreverent in the way God is portrayed - He is 'toying with' the atheist and stooping to his level...it's a very irreverent portrayal in addition to the other, more fundamental problem of being a character in a joke.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
Scientists can create life in the same way that I can make a copy of the Declaration of Independence. I may be able to create an exact replica, but I in no way, shape, or form wrote the document.
 

davenporter

Puritan Board Freshman
Please brothers and sisters let us stop posting these jokes that put words in God's mouth. I realize that no offense is intended but it is a clear violation of the third commandment.

WLC
Q. 113. What are the sins forbidden in the third commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the third commandment are, the not using of God's name as is required; and the abuse of it in an ignorant, vain, irreverent, profane, superstitious, or wicked mentioning or otherwise using his titles, attributes, ordinances, or works, by blasphemy, perjury; all sinful cursings, oaths, vows, and lots; violating of our oaths and vows, if lawful; and fulfilling them, if of things unlawful; murmuring and quarreling at, curious prying into, and misapplying of God's decrees and providences; misinterpreting, misapplying, or any way perverting the word, or any part of it, to profane jests, curious or unprofitable questions, vain janglings, or the maintaining of false doctrines; abusing it, the creatures, or anything contained under the name of God, to charms, or sinful lusts and practices; the maligning, scorning, reviling, or any wise opposing of God's truth, grace, and ways; making profession of religion in hypocrisy, or for sinister ends; being ashamed of it, or a shame to it, by unconformable, unwise, unfruitful, and offensive walking, or backsliding from it.
Rev. Daniel,

Please help me to understand the catechism here if I am mistaken, but as I understand it "vain" would be taking God's name senselessly, or foolishly, and "irreverent" would be similar; not treating the name of God with respect. It seems to me that the purpose of this joke is actually serving to venerate God as the creator and owner of all -- the genre of literature is clearly understood that the actual words in the joke are hypothetical, and although the specific words in this instance are not words God Himself has said, they accurately illustrate a truth about Himself. I just don't see how the words you bolded support your claim that this joke is sinful -- because insofar as I understand those words, the joke is not being irreverent or vain toward God.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument or be frustrating; I am very much still learning the confessions and want to learn to apply them accurately, and I would appreciate you going into a little more depth on how you interpret this passage of the Catechism and specifically those words, "vain" and "irreverent".

Thanks!
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
It seems many are missing Daniel's point - the joke purports to speak for God. The joke-teller is saying, "God said..." when in fact God did not say that. We know because it is not from Scripture. Even in light-hearted jest, the words of the Almighty should carry such heavy weight that we refrain from purporting to speak for Him, whether serious or joking.

Another example is those billboards that have trite phrases on them such as "Will the road you're on get you to my house?" and then ascribe those words to God. Those billboards are sinful because they are attempting to put words in God's mouth that He did not say.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Thank you, Daniel, for the good reminder.

I think almost every one of us is susceptible to falling into this sort of error from time to time. Bless you for pointing us back to the Word.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
It seems many are missing Daniel's point - the joke purports to speak for God. The joke-teller is saying, "God said..." when in fact God did not say that. We know because it is not from Scripture. Even in light-hearted jest, the words of the Almighty should carry such heavy weight that we refrain from purporting to speak for Him, whether serious or joking.

Another example is those billboards that have trite phrases on them such as "Will the road you're on get you to my house?" and then ascribe those words to God. Those billboards are sinful because they are attempting to put words in God's mouth that He did not say.
I completely agree with you about the annoying billboards supposedly quoting God. Unless you are going to put Scripture on your billboard, then stop misquoting God.
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
Maybe this is why reformed folk end up getting branded as having no sense of humour...
Our dear brother Daniel was simply sharing a gracious reminder that we should hold our God to the highest reverence and esteem. To chide him for this is completely uncharitable and uncalled for.
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
It seems many are missing Daniel's point - the joke purports to speak for God. The joke-teller is saying, "God said..." when in fact God did not say that. We know because it is not from Scripture. Even in light-hearted jest, the words of the Almighty should carry such heavy weight that we refrain from purporting to speak for Him, whether serious or joking.

Another example is those billboards that have trite phrases on them such as "Will the road you're on get you to my house?" and then ascribe those words to God. Those billboards are sinful because they are attempting to put words in God's mouth that He did not say.
I completely agree with you about the annoying billboards supposedly quoting God. Unless you are going to put Scripture on your billboard, then stop misquoting God.
Thank you Bill. And this is the same situation with the joke - unless one is going to quote Scripture, let us refrain from saying, "God said...".
 

davenporter

Puritan Board Freshman
It seems many are missing Daniel's point - the joke purports to speak for God. The joke-teller is saying, "God said..." when in fact God did not say that. We know because it is not from Scripture. Even in light-hearted jest, the words of the Almighty should carry such heavy weight that we refrain from purporting to speak for Him, whether serious or joking.

Another example is those billboards that have trite phrases on them such as "Will the road you're on get you to my house?" and then ascribe those words to God. Those billboards are sinful because they are attempting to put words in God's mouth that He did not say.
Okay, I understand your argument, and I do see the cause for concern. But he highlighted "vain, irreverent" in the catechism, and I think a case could be made that the joke is not "vain, irreverent" as it teaches a truth about God, like a parable. The intention of this "parable" is not to suggest God has actually said those words or the event ever happened (none of us would seriously argue that). Is there a better argument against this use of humor/parable from the Confession/Catechism? Or the Scriptures?

And no, I don't think the ends justify the means, and I actually think I agree with your reasoning. But I want to see a better argument against this using the texts we hold as authoritative.
 

davenporter

Puritan Board Freshman
How about replace the notion of God in the joke with an angel of some sort?
That actually works alright:

An atheist scientist came to an angel and said, "We've figured out how to make a man without God."

The angel said, "OK, let me see you do it."

So the atheist bent down to the ground and scooped up a handful. But the angel stopped him and said, "Oh, no you don't. Get your own dirt!"

But the owner of the dirt isn't as clear in this variation...
 

Pilgrim Standard

Puritan Board Sophomore
Atheist tells God he can make man...
Good... Now for a real test, let us see him deny God's curse and live forever.

I pray that God will enlighten his heart and mind and resurrect his soul from the dead. To God's glory I pray he will then become a testimony of God's mercy in Salvation.
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
To all: Vic and Andrew have correctly highlighted the main point I was trying to make.

It seems many are missing Daniel's point - the joke purports to speak for God. The joke-teller is saying, "God said..." when in fact God did not say that. We know because it is not from Scripture. Even in light-hearted jest, the words of the Almighty should carry such heavy weight that we refrain from purporting to speak for Him, whether serious or joking.

Another example is those billboards that have trite phrases on them such as "Will the road you're on get you to my house?" and then ascribe those words to God. Those billboards are sinful because they are attempting to put words in God's mouth that He did not say.
Okay, I understand your argument, and I do see the cause for concern. But he highlighted "vain, irreverent" in the catechism, and I think a case could be made that the joke is not "vain, irreverent" as it teaches a truth about God, like a parable. The intention of this "parable" is not to suggest God has actually said those words or the event ever happened (none of us would seriously argue that). Is there a better argument against this use of humor/parable from the Confession/Catechism? Or the Scriptures?

And no, I don't think the ends justify the means, and I actually think I agree with your reasoning. But I want to see a better argument against this using the texts we hold as authoritative.
Benjamin: The joke is vain and irreverent because it puts words in God's mouth and thus it does matter that God has never spoken these words. Vain as in: vanity, worthless, empty and void. Irreverent as in: lacking right reverence, fear, and service towards God. As the WLC points out, the third commandment deals not only with oaths but rightly using the name of God. Every time we use the name of God (in whatever context) we are invoking Him and, in a way, bringing Him into our conversation. Thus whatever we are saying at that moment, people will associate with Him and believe about Him. As Todd also pointed out, speaking of God in such a fashion, or simply having God speak in such a fashion, belittles His name and worth in the eyes of others. It makes God a conversation partner of man and brings Him down to our level without any divine authorization to do so. His name is holy: let us use it in a holy fashion (Leviticus 22:32; Psalm 111:9).
 

moral necessity

Puritan Board Junior
Is the Living Bible bordering on a similar commandment violation, for putting words in God's mouth?

Asked in sincerity...

Blessings!
 

Miss Marple

Puritan Board Junior
Any thoughts on the application of this argument over and against Pilgrim's Progress? Does it also put words in God's mouth?

In the absence of being able to put a tone of voice into my post, I'll say I was thinking this over last night, and wondering if the words of Evangelist or the three daughters at the Castle Beautiful or the Giant Despair, Vanity Fair etc., or quotes by Christian and company ever claim to be saying God's word. I could get it out and re-read it, but won't have time for a few days so thought I'd ask others' opinions.
 
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