Awkward Topic

[ValleyofVision]

Awkward Topic. I guess? Maybe, maybe not for some.

Yesterday afternoon, our Church was having our normal luncheon at a restaurant when a conversation came up from a table behind me - honestly do not remember how- where a woman was asking another woman who they would recommend for a gynecologist. Let me first say, I was not apart of this conversation, thankfully (ha) but did overhear bits and pieces.

So, the woman basically recommended a male doctor who said he was great, "thorough", and would definitely suggest she visit him if she needs a check up.

My question is: is there something wrong with this? Or better yet, what are your thoughts on your wife/girlfriend going to see a male gynecologist?

When my wife delivered our first born, she was supposed to have a woman doctor but the doctor had an emergency so it ended up getting switched. The doctor who was already at the hospital- was a male - helped deliver. Honestly, I had no issues at this time because 1)That baby needed to come out 2) It wasn't really a thought because I just wanted my wife and baby to be safe.

I hope this does not come across as offensive if this is something you agree/disagree with, just curious to know other opinions.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Given the title of the thread I figured the awkwardness was that this was at a restaurant on the Lord's Day.

 

[ValleyofVision]

Given the title of the thread I figured the awkwardness was that this was at a restaurant on the Lord's Day.

Sir, I agree with you. Haha. Lunch normally takes place in our Church kitchen but we are having it reconstructed so cannot be in there for the next 2 weeks.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

My humble opinion: a doctor is a doctor.

My own PCP is a woman, and she's the most capable Internist I've ever worked with.

If my wife had a problem with this, I'd give serious thought to switching to a man, but at the end of the day, it's all about being an adult and a professional.

 

[Parakaleo]

Yesterday afternoon, our Church was having our normal luncheon at a restaurant

Along with Mr. Coldwell, I initially thought this was the main cause for concern. Renovations in the kitchen do not make patronizing a restaurant on the Lord's Day a necessity. My family would not participate and I would feel compelled to take this matter up with the session, if this were my church. None of that is meant to come down harshly on you brother, but to further encourage you to take a stand for godliness.

As for the male/female physician issue, I would always rather see a male doctor and have my wife see a male doctor (with me present if at all possible). This is because I don't approve of career women in general.

 

[OPC'n]

As for the male/female physician issue, I would always rather see a male doctor and have my wife see a male doctor (with me present if at all possible). This is because I don't approve of career women in general.

I disagree with women having careers too! Now who wants to pay for my bills?

 

[Jack K]

The older I get, the more I realize that medical and nursing care is just awkward sometimes. It is an awkwardness we must endure for this life, as we have frail bodies in a fallen world. Choosing a caregiver or medical professional by their gender is a luxury that might make us a bit more comfortable, but there's no guarantee it will let us sidestep all possible impropriety or awkwardness.

Unless there are signs of unprofessional behavior, don't worry about it. And be thankful that in America we have excellent medical care that usually comes with a high level of privacy and professional ethics compared to what's available in many parts of the world.

 

[RamistThomist]

If you are having a colonoscopy or some similar procedure, there will likely be personnel of the opposite sex in the room. It's life. It's not erotic.

 

[RamistThomist]

And let's also remember that the great champion of the Republic, Ron Paul, was a gynecologist. So there's that.

 

[beloved7]

Personally I will only go to a male doctor. As far as what is acceptable for our wives and daughters, I'm sure it depends on the individual doctor themselves. What I do think, however, is inappropriate is that the discussion was being held in public, and loud enough for you to hear. That is a shame in my opinion.

 

[lynnie]

I had four babies in the hospital all natural. 3 in one hospital outside Philly.

You owe your unborn child the best care possible. You don't know what could go wrong. I knew women that chose midwives at birthing centers, and the midwives are trained and have ambulances on call, but that is just not the same as being there with the doctor in a top quality facility who can respond instantly in a crisis.

Having said that, when you pick the OBGYN, you can do what I did and try to find one who does not do abortions. There was only one team at the Hospital (two Jewish guys) who did not do abortions so I went with them. They were great.

When we moved to NJ I asked around and finally found one OBGYN associated with a Catholic hospital who was prolife. You could wait up to an hour to be seen at your appointment, but I stuck with him. Real nice guy. When he retired I gave up and just went with the closest group in my network. I had a woman but I got the feeling she might be a lezzie; there was just something weird-creepy about her even though she was very professional. I switched to somebody else. In today's world, a woman isn't necessarily better than a guy in respect to being sexually attracted to women.

Anyway, there is nothing erotic about it at all. It isn't sexual at all. You are being examined and prodded and maybe scraped for a Pap smear, and if you are pregnant they are carefully examining you properly. I know a Christian guy who decided to be an OBGYN because all the other specialties were dying and diseased suffering people, but he got to deliver babies for happy grateful patients.

Bottom line, you want the best care possible, and if you can, do that without supporting abortionists. Gender is at best the third qualification.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Since the context is not a lustful or sexual one, I would not worry about it. As in exegesis, so in medicine: context is king.

 

[ccravens]

Since the context is not a lustful or sexual one, I would not worry about it. As in exegesis, so in medicine: context is king.

I'm often shocked at the number of believers and unbelievers who do not understand or agree with your statement on the importance of context.

 

[Physeter]

Awkward that the discussion was out in public. Embarrassing In my humble opinion.

In selecting an OBGYN, qualification is paramount. What gender the doctor is immaterial to me. That he is prolife is important to me. The doctor that delivered my son was both prolife and a Christian. He was also very qualified and provided excellent care.

 

[Pergamum]

Such a discussion is a totally appropriate one for women friends at lunch. It is important who you see for healthcare.

You also need to know that many Third World women die precisely because of these attitudes.

I, as a man, have been disallowed from checking on women who are bleeding profusely after birth (even when their lives were at risk). Some backward cultures are more willing to let a woman die than to bear a male trained medical staff person to see her private parts. Such attitudes hamper advancement of the medical practice in many ignorant regions of the world. I would hate the reformed world to be as stupid as the Mslms or some tribal peoples in this regard.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I have found these answers so far to be very interesting, and I thought I would hear mostly the opposite of what is being said.

My wife will only allow another woman to see parts of her body that only her husband should see, unless of course there is an emergency. For example, when we had our miscarriage the only doctor on call was a male. Other than that, one time a male on the OBGYN team had been scheduled to see my wife against her wishes. He rudely asked her if she was going to let him look at her, and she replied by saying she doesn't feel that it's right. He pretty much walked out and that was it, she left the practice.

With the great corruption of the minds of men, and the belief of total depravity we ascribe to, I'm wondering why we are so at ease with this area.

I just saw a post where 90 percent of Christian men said they were at one time in their life addicted to p0rnography. About 500 people were surveyed. I wonder what would make us think that male doctors are exempt from sexual lust just because they work in the medical field.

 

[Pergamum]

I have found these answers so far to be very interesting, and I thought I would hear mostly the opposite of what is being said.

My wife will only allow another woman to see parts of her body that only her husband should see, unless of course there is an emergency. For example, when we had our miscarriage the only doctor on call was a male. Other than that, one time a male on the OBGYN team had been scheduled to see my wife against her wishes. He rudely asked her if she was going to let him look at her, and she replied by saying she doesn't feel that it's right. He pretty much walked out and that was it, she left the practice.

With the great corruption of the minds of men, and the belief of total depravity we ascribe to, I'm wondering why we are so at ease with this area.

Because there are professional standards of ethical practice which allow for it and which usually say that a female attendant be also present. Rare abuses do take place, I know. For a busy doctor to have his 30th patient of the day hold up his progress and make extra work for him after implying he might feel lustful towards her if he sees what every other woman also has...this is (and you cannot get around it) sort of insulting.

 

[SavedSinner]

Awkward Topic. I guess? Maybe, maybe not for some.

Yesterday afternoon, our Church was having our normal luncheon at a restaurant when a conversation came up from a table behind me - honestly do not remember how- where a woman was asking another woman who they would recommend for a gynecologist. Let me first say, I was not apart of this conversation, thankfully (ha) but did overhear bits and pieces.

So, the woman basically recommended a male doctor who said he was great, "thorough", and would definitely suggest she visit him if she needs a check up.

My question is: is there something wrong with this? Or better yet, what are your thoughts on your wife/girlfriend going to see a male gynecologist?

When my wife delivered our first born, she was supposed to have a woman doctor but the doctor had an emergency so it ended up getting switched. The doctor who was already at the hospital- was a male - helped deliver. Honestly, I had no issues at this time because 1)That baby needed to come out 2) It wasn't really a thought because I just wanted my wife and baby to be safe.

I hope this does not come across as offensive if this is something you agree/disagree with, just curious to know other opinions.

Only in the 21st century would the sex of the doctor be an issue. A few decades ago, all doctors were the same sex. In the 20th century kids showered together after P.E. and swimming was segregated by sex so they needed no swimsuits until the 60s I think.

 

[ZackF]

Anecdotally speaking, the places my wife has had medical care have females in the room even when I'm there when sexual examinations are done. I don't know how it is with men.

 

[Pergamum]

Anecdotally speaking, the places my wife has had medical care have females in the room even when I'm there when sexual examinations are done. I don't know how it is with men.

What exactly is a sexual examination?

 

[Tom Hart]

A male gynecologist not an issue for me now, even if I at first didn't like the idea. The male doctor who helped my wife and me during her pregancy was highly professional and courteous.

 

[ZackF]

What exactly is a sexual examination?

Oops. That’s a bit clumsy on the word choice. I meant gynecological examination.

 

[ValleyofVision]

Just finished reading through all the replies. Thanks for the responses.

I do understand about professionalism that comes from a doctor, but it is still hard for me to grasp the thought of another man looking at a part of my wife that is private and sacred. You are probably right that for the majority of the time, the doctor is not thinking sexually about his patients, but I cannot 100% say that it does not cross his mind ever. How could I?

Like I said, emergency situations must be done and whoever is available, fine. But, I will agree to disagree about regular checkups. To each his own.

 

[earl40]

As a person who has worked with many female doctors, I personally opt for a male Dr. mostly if not all of the time. Not to say there are competent ladies in the medical profession (my wife hade here parts removed by a lady) but the demands of lady doctors are interesting when her other duties impinge on her career. Even in our egalitarian culture I find even the best lady doctors have so much more on the mind than the male doctors, so far as what is going on in the home front. Also not to speak of some basic skills that men generally are better at than ladies. Now in saying this I am glad my wife has a female gyno Dr. ,though I did have reservations on her taking my wife's parts out.

 

[Solparvus]

Reminds me of the time that our high school health teacher, a Christian man, showed us a video of a woman giving birth. He told us guys (an all-male class) before showing the video, “Guys, it is not sexy.”

I’ve attended birth classes with my wife because we chose to have our children at home. There is nothing erotic about such issues—quite the opposite; and it’s a good thing for men to know what to do. Part of our birth plans for our children was that I as husband would help in the birthing process. The midwife gave me instructions on what to do during the birth process, and even what to do if the baby came before she could arrive. I’m personally glad to know such things for my wife’s sake.

 

[RamistThomist]

Clothes actually make people look more attractive. No man becomes a gynecologist because he thinks he will check out supermodels all day.

Conversely, would you be comfortable letting your wife be examined by a same-sex attracted female? Is that better or worse?

It's not a sexy profession.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

J. C. Ryle has some "wisdom" to share on this issue from his experience while he was a curate: "As for doctoring the people's bodies, of course, I could do little, being a young and ignorant man; also being unmarried I did not pretend to touch the women's cases, and left them alone."

J. C. Ryle, Bishop J. C. Ryle’s Autobiography: The Early Years, ed. Andrew Atherstone (Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 2017), p. 101.

 

[TheOldCourse]

For clarification, I do not think that most of those who scruple at the gender of their OBGYN do so because they fear that the examination can be erotic or lustful (although in rare cases that can be a concern). They do so because they believe that there is or may be a proper, natural order to be observed. Saying that it's "clinical" and not "erotic" doesn't address that concern.

 

[Pergamum]

For clarification, I do not think that most of those who scruple at the gender of their OBGYN do so because they fear that the examination can be erotic or lustful (although in rare cases that can be a concern). They do so because they believe that there is or may be a proper, natural order to be observed. Saying that it's "clinical" and not "erotic" doesn't address that concern.

Wouldn't the natural order have women mostly in the home and not as doctors in the first place?

We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say that only women doctors ought to examine women patients by appealing to the natural order and then, at other times, appeal to the natural order to say that the majority of women should be in the home. This would mean that 50% of the population (women) would be serviced by only a very few and rare women doctors bucking the natural order and pursuing a career instead of tending to the home.

In our own more gender-segregated past women went to men doctors, after all.

 

[Parakaleo]

We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say that only women doctors ought to examine women patients by appealing to the natural order and then, at other times, appeal to the natural order to say that the majority of women should be in the home.

Thanks for saying what I had tried to say, only a lot better, brother. This is why my preference is at all times for members of my family to engage the professional services of men, if at all possible.