Baucham: Our concept of race is not biblical, its artificial.

[Andrew35]

While everything you say is true from my own personal perspective there is more to it. My father was a non observant Baptist from Mississippi, my mother a non observant Jew from NY ... I was confused.

I don't look Jewish, nor do I have a Jewish surname. I was in a position to interact with Gentiles who felt no reluctance to denigrate Jews. My mother was very sympathetic to the civil rights movement, and I was as well. I had great admiration for the Reverend Dr King.

I was about 12, on a city bus in Miami Beach. As we were going down Washington Ave two teenage black girls sitting in the seat in front of mine began talking about the Jews. At that time Miami Beach was largely a Jewish community and the area had a large population of elderly Jews walking along which is probably what stimulated the girls.

So it was 'the Jews this, and the Jews that,' coming out of the mouth of one of the girls. I was quite taken aback. Any Jewish people I knew were unquestionably civil rights advocates. In the ensuing years I can't count the times I've been in the presence of white, and black people, referring to Jews in a negative way, that they probably wouldn't have if they had known of my ancestry. At least not in my presence.

What does this have to do with your post ? Well ... I know racism up close and personal. Not as an abstract concept, or something I've seen on the evening news or in a documentary.

My ancestors slavery was not in this country, or in recent history, but 6 million Jews gassed in Germany happened just a few years before I was born, and I do know something about feelings of being among a group singled out because of their ethnicity.

At 13 years old, in a car driving from Florida to NY I saw a billboard in front of a roadside Inn that read, "NO (N-word), Dogs, of Jews Allowed." I know what it is to burn inside due to bigotry and racism. I get it.

They still spray paint swastikas on Synagogues, and murder people because they are Jewish. Not only in the Middle East, but around the world.

I abhor racism, and I have no personal guilt on that score. Nor will I allow any to be forced upon me because of the sins of our fathers.

Revelation 7:9

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On 'that day' the issue of racism will be solved.

Interesting! That reminds me, I was once talking to this friendly black guy, a doctor of all things, about some of the problems in the US. Abruptly, he loudly proclaimed, "Well, you know, it's all the Jews!" and then began to detail how all the problems in our society could be traced back to... the Jews.

I mumbled something and slowly, cautiously, disengaged.

 

[a mere housewife]

While everything you say is true from my own personal perspective there is more to it. My father was a non observant Baptist from Mississippi, my mother a non observant Jew from NY ... I was confused.

I don't look Jewish, nor do I have a Jewish surname. I was in a position to interact with Gentiles who felt no reluctance to denigrate Jews. My mother was very sympathetic to the civil rights movement, and I was as well. I had great admiration for the Reverend Dr King.

I was about 12, on a city bus in Miami Beach. As we were going down Washington Ave two teenage black girls sitting in the seat in front of mine began talking about the Jews. At that time Miami Beach was largely a Jewish community and the area had a large population of elderly Jews walking along which is probably what stimulated the girls.

So it was 'the Jews this, and the Jews that,' coming out of the mouth of one of the girls. I was quite taken aback. Any Jewish people I knew were unquestionably civil rights advocates. In the ensuing years I can't count the times I've been in the presence of white, and black people, referring to Jews in a negative way, that they probably wouldn't have if they had known of my ancestry. At least not in my presence.

What does this have to do with your post ? Well ... I know racism up close and personal. Not as an abstract concept, or something I've seen on the evening news or in a documentary.

My ancestors slavery was not in this country, or in recent history, but 6 million Jews gassed in Germany happened just a few years before I was born, and I do know something about feelings of being among a group singled out because of their ethnicity.

At 13 years old, in a car driving from Florida to NY I saw a billboard in front of a roadside Inn that read, "NO (N-word), Dogs, of Jews Allowed." I know what it is to burn inside due to bigotry and racism. I get it.

They still spray paint swastikas on Synagogues, and murder people because they are Jewish. Not only in the Middle East, but around the world.

I abhor racism, and I have no personal guilt on that score. Nor will I allow any to be forced upon me because of the sins of our fathers.

Revelation 7:9

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On 'that day' the issue of racism will be solved.

I have some Jewish ancestry, though I was never taught to identify much with it. Ruben has been telling me about some of the emerging anti-semitic things happening these days in NY, and it's heartbreaking. I think even as a child I found the racist things I encountered appalling and unfathomable, and I had a hard time reconciling them with people I took to be good Christians. I have my own special brands of hate, that are not superior to anyone else's. But I understand what you are saying. I do want to always actually see the human I'm looking at. I don't think colorblind is the right word. Our skin tone like everything else is the work of God in love. It's part of seeing the image of God. If we can't see the humanity of someone in their shade of skin, we do have a problem.

I think to one degree or another many of us can identify with being targeted with contempt. With a sense that people did not even treat us as fully human. And those experiences do shape our consciousness in many ways. So do sins that have steamrolled down the generations of our culture or family heritages. This one has just steamrolled down to us on a national scale.

Ie, somewhere along the line, my Jewish ancestors came here and found a more level playing field than what they left. Somewhere along the line, Greg was telling me that his ancestors were brought here and sold. That's a different consciousness of what 'America' means in our heritage. And that's why our ancestral Jewish slavery under Egypt does not have the same shaping force on our current culture as African-American slavery (speaking in natural terms, not gospel symbols). That was a national evil that went on for generations, and is going to linger in various forms, as we've witnessed in compound ways this week. I just don't think it helps the problem to ignore its true dimensions and reality, even though many of the solutions we have thrown and propose to throw at it are going to become part of it steamrolling on. We do need to listen to each other. The Holy Spirit listens to us. It's not one of the world's solutions. It's one of God's.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Some criminal engaging in criminal activity acts belligerent towards police, resists arrest or attacks them to the point where he has to be restrained or shot at.

Is there a video / evidece of George Floyd resisting this? I know he was a repeat criminal and was high when he was arrested. I didn't see him resisting arrest or fighting with police. Although the video footage has a lot of cuts and I may not have seen it all. This isn't to say that this hasn't happened in the other cases.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Derek Chauvin abused his position of authority and killed George Floyd; however, I haven't seen any factual information come out indicating the awful event was racially motivated and yet the discussions have been mostly about racism. Perhaps information will come to light later indicating Chauvin was in fact a racist...who knows. Maybe Tou Thao, the Laotian police officer on the scene was also a racist...who knows. But to make this entirely about racism without proof is slander. Racism is a terrible sin.

Racism has become a blurry word over the past 10 years and has started to mean more than blatant racism (KKK, NeoNazi). Stereotyping, intolerance and cultural disagreement has been mixed into its meaning blurring the definition. I had one person tell me that the dictionary definition cannot be followed because it was written by racists. In the case of Derek Chauvin I think we are dealing with a person motivated by his own vices and racism not being one of them. This to me is another case that can be evaluated against the Standford Prison Experiment.

 

[Wretched Man]

Is there a video / evidece of George Floyd resisting this? I know he was a repeat criminal and was high when he was arrested. I didn't see him resisting arrest or fighting with police. Although the video footage has a lot of cuts and I may not have seen it all. This isn't to say that this hasn't happened in the other cases.

First of all, before the police were called, the store cashiers (one of whom was black) confronted George in his car to retrieve the pack of cigarettes they claimed he purchased with a counterfeit bill. You can’t hear anything, but it is on video and obviously he tells them to piss off... and they subsequent described him as high and out of control.

When the police arrive, he doesn’t initially appear (at least on video) to physically altercate, but I’m curious what he was saying to the police. I doubt the subsequent events were triggered by a civil conversation. And I doubt the media will ever shed light on that. I am also curious what exactly happened in the police car when somehow he ended out the other side. If he was properly submitting to the authorities, not sure why he wouldn’t have compliantly just sat in the back seat (he’s been through the drill before...)

Keep in mind George Floyd is a guy who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly and ransacked her home 6 years ago.

 

[B.L.]

Racism has become a blurry word over the past 10 years and has started to mean more than blatant racism (KKK, NeoNazi). Stereotyping, intolerance and cultural disagreement has been mixed into its meaning blurring the definition. I had one person tell me that the dictionary definition cannot be followed because it was written by racists. In the case of Derek Chauvin I think we are dealing with a person motivated by his own vices and racism not being one of them.

I stopped purchasing printed dictionaries for this reason. It seems like words have gained quite a bit of elasticity in recent years.

Derek Chauvin isn't the first officer in the Minneapolis Police Department to abuse/misuse his position of authority in recent years. Remember this case involving Mohamed Noor who shot the Australian woman? https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapol...l-shooting-justine-ruszczyk/story?id=63547748

 

[RobertPGH1981]

When the police arrive, he doesn’t initially appear (at least on video) to physically alternate, but I’m curious what he was saying to the police.

My words cannot be used to justify physical restraint unless I threaten harm. We can say whatever we want to the police; I would just say its not wise since they are the ones that hold your immediate fate in their hands (recommendations to judges etc).

Keep in mind George Floyd is a guy who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly and ransacked her home 6 years ago.

While past actions should give a police officer reason to be cautious; it cannot be used as reason to rough up somebody. From what I have seen he was complying with their requests and was even handcuffed when they placed him against the wall. Once again I am not sure how this resulted with him on the ground with the police offer having placed his knee on his neck. Sometimes police will deliberately do things like this to career criminals by claiming the person is resisting and shouting out "do not resist" to give reason to be physical even though they are not resisting.

 

[PezLad]

What I say next, I have never heard a single person say, but I will. Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.

Thomas Sowell, an economist and political commentator has a book called black rednecks and white liberals. He details how black culture is not black at all; it is white. Black culture comes from "crackers" and "rednecks" who they themselves came from certain poor parts of Britain, and in which the slave trade population was concentrated among, such that the slave blacks assimilated this white cracker and redneck culture, and which at later times was identified falsely as a uniquely black culture. As far as victim hood, blacks are victims not in the personal sense, but in the political sense, that their alleged political supporters have only ever hurt. 1960s welfare and onward is what got blacks from low incomes hooked on welfare and hence dependent and also minimum wage laws etc; furthermore "black culture" which is really from rednecks and crackers is absolutely destructive, yet most universities support it, linguistic/cultural diversity.

 

[PezLad]

Agreed. The assumption that race is a social construct is partly what led to the notion that gender is a social construct. No. In both cases, the differences are biological facts, not social constructs.

Macro evolutionary theory, and that by Charles Darwin, is the source of this problem, namely race does not exist. "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" Race presupposes we came from apes and that some "people groups" are closer to apes than others, whereas bibilically and truly we are all descendent of Adam. Now Darwin got this right, namely microevolution, natural selection and mutation, which is why we look so different. We are all genetic subsets of Adam and Eve, particular genes brought to fruition by mutations and natural selection, that is environmental pressures.

 

[PezLad]

Agreed. The assumption that race is a social construct is partly what led to the notion that gender is a social construct. No. In both cases, the differences are biological facts, not social constructs. The differences between the sub-races of the human race do not make any of them less than human, but the differences still exist. And before anyone asks, no, I am not saying that inter-racial marriage is inherently sinful, nor am I saying that all people who live in the same geographical region need to be of the same racial background, nor am I saying that anyone ought to be oppressed on account of their race. All that I am saying is that there are minor differences among the sub-races that comprise the human race which are rooted in empirical reality.

What your saying conveys some truth but your language is utterly false. We ought not to use the term race. There are no races for we are not descendent from apes. Terms like sub races may mislead others into thinking we are using language of superiority and inferiority. There are differences between people groups as subsets of Adam and Eve.

 

[Wretched Man]

Thomas Sowell, an economist and political commentator has a book called black rednecks and white liberals. He details how black culture is not black at all; it is white. Black culture comes from "crackers" and "rednecks" who they themselves came from certain poor parts of Britain, and in which the slave trade population was concentrated among, such that the slave blacks assimilated this white cracker and redneck culture, and which at later times was identified falsely as a uniquely black culture. As far as victim hood, blacks are victims not in the personal sense, but in the political sense, that their alleged political supporters have only ever hurt. 1960s welfare and onward is what got blacks from low incomes hooked on welfare and hence dependent and also minimum wage laws etc; furthermore "black culture" which is really from rednecks and crackers is absolutely destructive, yet most universities support it, linguistic/cultural diversity.

Very true. The real oppressors are the white liberal politicians who continue to perpetuate the victimization perception of blacks and hail themselves as their hero’s. For 60 years, they’ve been telling the black community to just wait and give them their votes... and after 60 years, they’re still waiting for some reparation handout that is going to make everything alright. Meanwhile they collectively deteriorate into an ever increasing bitter and self-destructive “race”.

 

[JM]

Thomas Sowell, an economist and political commentator has a book called black rednecks and white liberals. He details how black culture is not black at all; it is white. Black culture comes from "crackers" and "rednecks" who they themselves came from certain poor parts of Britain, and in which the slave trade population was concentrated among, such that the slave blacks assimilated this white cracker and redneck culture, and which at later times was identified falsely as a uniquely black culture. As far as victim hood, blacks are victims not in the personal sense, but in the political sense, that their alleged political supporters have only ever hurt. 1960s welfare and onward is what got blacks from low incomes hooked on welfare and hence dependent and also minimum wage laws etc; furthermore "black culture" which is really from rednecks and crackers is absolutely destructive, yet most universities support it, linguistic/cultural diversity.

I've likely read/listened to all fo Sowell's books.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Call it race, call it whatever you will. I heard Voddie say that Rom 9:3 justifies having a special affinity for "one's people" according to the flesh. A poll done by Pew Research in 2019 demonstrated that just about only 5% of white people report that their race has any bearing in sense of personal identity, but nearly 95% of blacks say that their race is important to their sense of personal identity. Interesting. But it might be a reason why white Christians are so quick to think race isn't important, or that race can and should be ignored, whereas blacks very much celebrate their blackness.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

What your saying conveys some truth but your language is utterly false. We ought not to use the term race. There are no races for we are not descendent from apes. Terms like sub races may mislead others into thinking we are using language of superiority and inferiority. There are differences between people groups as subsets of Adam and Eve.

If it conveys some truth then it cannot be utterly false. The problem with your argument is that you are making a word-concept fallacy by assuming that race only ever means race in a Darwinian sense. For example, the Southern Presbyterian theologian, Thomas Smyth, who was definitely not a Darwinian (and was even looked upon with suspicion by some of his fellow Southerners), wrote a book on The Unity of the Human Races in 1850. Consequently, recognising that there is ultimately one human race as a result of monogenesis is not incongruous with recognising that there are sub-races within that one race. Denying that there is such a thing as races is simply burying one's head in the sand in the face of self-evident facts. None of what I have said here means that any of the races are morally or spiritually superior to one another. Nor does it mean that they always need to be geographically separated or that inter-racial marriage is wrong. But pretending race does not exist is simply playing into the hands of real racists who want to paint all their opponents as Cultural Marxists.

 

[PezLad]

If it conveys some truth then it cannot be utterly false. The problem with your argument is that you are making a word-concept fallacy by assuming that race only ever means race in a Darwinian sense. For example, the Southern Presbyterian theologian, Thomas Smyth, who was definitely not a Darwinian (and was even looked upon with suspicion by some of his fellow Southerners), wrote a book on The Unity of the Human Races in 1850. Consequently, recognising that there is ultimately one human race as a result of monogenesis is not incongruous with recognising that there are sub-races within that one race. Denying that there is such a thing as races is simply burying one's head in the sand in the face of self-evident facts. None of what I have said here means that any of the races are morally or spiritually superior to one another. Nor does it mean that they always need to be geographically separated or that inter-racial marriage is wrong. But pretending race does not exist is simply playing into the hands of real racists who want to paint all their opponents as Cultural Marxists.

I dont know what you mean by sub race; do you mean a sub set of the whole set? Ie we are all part of a sub race, every people group on planet earth, as sub sets of the "original set" Adam and Eve. I prefer language like ethnicity, or people group. I have no problem acknowledging differences, but i have seen enough dialogue to know that words get misconstrued, misappropriated and ultimately emptied of meaning.

 

[EdwardsianBot]

I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.

Blessings.

I'm black, so I'll bite.

• Racism of any kind is sin, plain and simple. It's rooted in the total depravity of man and cannot be eliminated by human means. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can do that, and I wish it was more propagated in the Church as the answer than "social justice".
• I see myself as "Christian" before seeing myself as "Black" (since I'm united with Jesus along with the Church)
• I don't think racism is much of a problem in this country anymore.
• What's seen as "Black Culture" is really urban culture and I believe the Democratic party has had a mental hold on blacks in these areas since the '60s, and it has caused many of the issues we see in these areas today. The biggest issue being fatherlessness in the family
• I didn't listen to Baucham's sermon (although I've planned to), but I do enjoy him from time to time and I agree that what we think of race is a social construct and I believe ethnicity is a more proper term.
• I'm not sure if Chauvin was racist, but I don't believe what he did to Floyd was justified and it was a demonstration of sin (but he deserves prayer none the less)
• I think the BLM organization is unbiblical and I don't agree with their platform (although I'm fine with an organization combating police brutality and corruption against all people groups)
• I'm fine with the protests, just not the looting

However, Blacks aren't monolithic (as Jo_Was has already pointed out) so my options belong only to me, but I know for a fact other Black Christians share my views (two being Samuel Sey and Darrell B. Harrison)

 

[Grant]

I'm black, so I'll bite.

• Racism of any kind is sin, plain and simple. It's rooted in the total depravity of man and cannot be eliminated by human means. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can do that, and I wish it was more propagated in the Church as the answer than "social justice".
• I see myself as "Christian" before seeing myself as "Black" (since I'm united with Jesus along with the Church)
• I don't think racism is much of a problem in this country anymore.
• What's seen as "Black Culture" is really urban culture and I believe the Democratic party has had a mental hold on blacks in these areas since the '60s, and it has caused many of the issues we see in these areas today. The biggest issue being fatherlessness in the family
• I didn't listen to Baucham's sermon (although I've planned to), but I do enjoy him from time to time and I agree that what we think of race is a social construct and I believe ethnicity is a more proper term.
• I'm not sure if Chauvin was racist, but I don't believe what he did to Floyd was justified and it was a demonstration of sin (but he deserves prayer none the less)
• I think the BLM organization is unbiblical and I don't agree with their platform (although I'm fine with an organization combating police brutality and corruption against all people groups)
• I'm fine with the protests, just not the looting

However, Blacks aren't monolithic (as Jo_Was has already pointed out) so my options belong only to me, but I know for a fact other Black Christians share my views (two being Samuel Sey and Darrell B. Harrison)

Thank you for being willing to bite, brother!

 

[Chad Hutson]

Thomas Sowell, an economist and political commentator has a book called black rednecks and white liberals. He details how black culture is not black at all; it is white. Black culture comes from "crackers" and "rednecks" who they themselves came from certain poor parts of Britain, and in which the slave trade population was concentrated among, such that the slave blacks assimilated this white cracker and redneck culture, and which at later times was identified falsely as a uniquely black culture. As far as victim hood, blacks are victims not in the personal sense, but in the political sense, that their alleged political supporters have only ever hurt. 1960s welfare and onward is what got blacks from low incomes hooked on welfare and hence dependent and also minimum wage laws etc; furthermore "black culture" which is really from rednecks and crackers is absolutely destructive, yet most universities support it, linguistic/cultural diversity.

I love Thomas Sowell! I have that book ordered for weeks and it still hasn't been shipped. I'm chomping at the bit to read it.
Most natives of the Appalachian mountains are direct descendants of indentured servants rounded up in England and Scotland (poor houses, brothels, prisons, orphanages) and brought to America, along with African indentured servants, to work the plantations. They were freed after 7 years or so and relocated themselves as far away from the plantation and authority as they could get, hence the remote mountains. 150 years later, these same families were robbed of their land and sustenance by the likes of the Rockefellers and such wealthy, elite North Eastern corporate types. They ended up working in coal mines, living in coal camps in company houses, paid in script that was redeemable only at the company store. They were "owned" by the coal companies. Southern West Virginia coal miners actually went to war against the coal companies and the National Guard. BTW- they wore red bandanas around their necks to differentiate who was who in battle, hence the term "redneck."
All I'm saying is that injustice knows no skin color. Look up Anthony Johnson. He was the African former indentured servant who sued Virginia to retain ownership of his slaves as property, leading to wholesale chattel slavery in America.

 

[Chad Hutson]

I'm black, so I'll bite.

• Racism of any kind is sin, plain and simple. It's rooted in the total depravity of man and cannot be eliminated by human means. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can do that, and I wish it was more propagated in the Church as the answer than "social justice".
• I see myself as "Christian" before seeing myself as "Black" (since I'm united with Jesus along with the Church)
• I don't think racism is much of a problem in this country anymore.
• What's seen as "Black Culture" is really urban culture and I believe the Democratic party has had a mental hold on blacks in these areas since the '60s, and it has caused many of the issues we see in these areas today. The biggest issue being fatherlessness in the family
• I didn't listen to Baucham's sermon (although I've planned to), but I do enjoy him from time to time and I agree that what we think of race is a social construct and I believe ethnicity is a more proper term.
• I'm not sure if Chauvin was racist, but I don't believe what he did to Floyd was justified and it was a demonstration of sin (but he deserves prayer none the less)
• I think the BLM organization is unbiblical and I don't agree with their platform (although I'm fine with an organization combating police brutality and corruption against all people groups)
• I'm fine with the protests, just not the looting

However, Blacks aren't monolithic (as Jo_Was has already pointed out) so my options belong only to me, but I know for a fact other Black Christians share my views (two being Samuel Sey and Darrell B. Harrison)

Yes, my friend. I live in the hills of West Virginia where many people are poor. I have often said that we suffer from the same ailments as the inner city blacks: lack of opportunity, poor life choices, fatherlessness, drugs, resistance to authority figures (see fatherlessness), promiscuity, and poorly trained preachers who preach everything except what is truly needed: repentance and faith. Young black men and young white men of the same circumstances need to hear about personal agency/responsibility. Don't depend on the government; don't blame everyone/everything else for your personal choices; life isn't fair; you have obstacles to overcome; it isn't easy.
I grieve for the inner city culture as well as the rural poor.

 

[alexandermsmith]

When I say dismissive I mean dismissive of those who feel the need to protest. I'm obviously not a fan of the violent sort. But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.

Well how do you react to the fact that more unarmed white men are killed each year by police than black despite the fact that black men have a disproportionately high rate of interaction with police (because they commit 50% of violent crime and 90% of interracial crime)? How do you feel when you see video after video of white adults and children being attacked by black people, usually in a pack? Because that happens all the time it just never gets reported in the media. I've yet to see a video where a pack of white men beat up a black person. Do you go out and protest? Do you demand that police are defunded? That blackness is defunded? Do you loot and riot? Do you tear down statues?

We certainly shouldn't be dismissive of what's happening. We should oppose it. It is a revolution.

 

[alexandermsmith]

Colored meaning what? Black only?

Exactly. Only certain races can speak on certain issues it seems. This is critical race theory and it is destroying the church.

 

[alexandermsmith]

My church is doing a summer series through the Psalms and today my pastor preached a sermon on Psalm 17 and the message in its entirety was about systemic racism in the U.S. with the obvious focus being on George Floyd and the protests of the past week. I've been disappointed that nearly everyone has turned the tragic event that happened into a conversation on racism instead of on police brutality. Derek Chauvin abused his position of authority and killed George Floyd; however, I haven't seen any factual information come out indicating the awful event was racially motivated and yet the discussions have been mostly about racism. Perhaps information will come to light later indicating Chauvin was in fact a racist...who knows. Maybe Tou Thao, the Laotian police officer on the scene was also a racist...who knows. But to make this entirely about racism without proof is slander. Racism is a terrible sin. We shouldn't be quick to accuse people of committing this sin without there being proof. Christians of all people need to be cautious thinkers in this area and not be ruled by emotion.

I grieve with those who are grieving and I weep with those who are weeping...my heart is heavy.

Friends, I am not really qualified to speak on the situation in the USA but I live in a country that has gained worldwide respect for genuine attempts to bring about racial harmony. I make that statement with some qualification because some of this harmony has been 'politically correct', and my country in general has moved away from its Christian heritage. For example I mentioned this countries evil abortion law which recently went through Parliament.

When New Zealand was colonized over 200 years ago, there was no doubt Maori land was taken off the Maori, often by Government force. Over the centuries this created a festering sore which Governments of the past 50 years or so have attempted to rectify. Am I saying the Maori were innocent and Europeans were guilty? No! Prior to European settlement Maori were a barbaric people who practiced cannibalism. They had a cultural practice of utu - revenge killing. Although some Europeans did steal Maori land, there is a tremendous history here of Missionaries coming from the United Kingdom to New Zealand with the gospel. Many Maori were soundly converted and left their pagan ways. The missionaries had the spiritual interests of the Maori at heart and treated them kindly.

This has taught me that it is right to seek racial harmony as appropriate. It is right to correct past wrongs. Obviously there is a fine line here because I am not responsible for the racial wrongs of 200 years ago. But I do acknowledge the wrongs of Maori unjustly losing their land. But in the final analysis it is the gospel preached with power that brings repentance, change and racial harmony.

I have just been listening to four powerful sermons by Dr M Lloyd-Jones on 1 Thess 1:5 " because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction." It has strengthened my conviction that the gospel needs to come to cour various nations in Word, and also the power of the Holy Spirit.

I highly recommend these four sermons by Dr Lloyd-Jones

The Maori are not indigenous to those islands. They travelled there and ate the people they found.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Well how do you react to the fact that more unarmed white men are killed each year by police than black despite the fact that black men have a disproportionately high rate of interaction with police (because they commit 50% of violent crime and 90% of interracial crime)? How do you feel when you see video after video of white adults and children being attacked by black people, usually in a pack? Because that happens all the time it just never gets reported in the media. I've yet to see a video where a pack of white men beat up a black person. Do you go out and protest? Do you demand that police are defunded? That blackness is defunded? Do you loot and riot? Do you tear down statues?

We certainly shouldn't be dismissive of what's happening. We should oppose it. It is a revolution.

Indeed it is a revolution. It is an attempt by Marxists to whip up a race-war for their own nefarious ends. It is also interesting that people leapt to the conclusion that George Floyd's death was racially motivated simply because the officer in question was white. I am old enough to remember when making such assumptions used to be considered racist.

On the issue of the statistics, I am wondering about your 50% figure. According to the official government statistics for 2018, white (non-Hispanic) Americans made up 62.3% of the population (171,493,180 people) and committed 50.2% of the violent crimes. Black Americans made up 12% of the population (33,132,390 people) and committed 21.7% of violent crimes. In terms of numbers, 1,155,670 blacks were listed as offenders in violent crimes, whereas 644,710 were the victims. For whites, there were 2,669,900 offenders, as opposed to 3,957,720 victims. [1] When you say 50% of violent crime, are you using a broader or narrow definition of the term "violent crime" than the compilers of the official statistics are using? Mathematics is not really may thing, so I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick with the statistics. (Please feel free to point out where I have gone wrong.)

Looking at these statistics objectively, however, there is no justification for the narrative that the lives of black Americans do not matter in comparison to those of whites. The important thing to remember, however, is that it both cases it is only a relatively small number of people from both groups who are involved in violent crime. Consequently, there is no factual justification for using divisive rhetoric such as "Black Lives Matter." Instead, we must urge those of all skin colours to live at peace with one another and cease their violence and rebellion.

[1] Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey, 2018. See page 12 of this document.

 

[Unique Name]

I'm black, so I'll bite.

• Racism of any kind is sin, plain and simple. It's rooted in the total depravity of man and cannot be eliminated by human means. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can do that, and I wish it was more propagated in the Church as the answer than "social justice".
• I see myself as "Christian" before seeing myself as "Black" (since I'm united with Jesus along with the Church)
• I don't think racism is much of a problem in this country anymore.
• What's seen as "Black Culture" is really urban culture and I believe the Democratic party has had a mental hold on blacks in these areas since the '60s, and it has caused many of the issues we see in these areas today. The biggest issue being fatherlessness in the family
• I didn't listen to Baucham's sermon (although I've planned to), but I do enjoy him from time to time and I agree that what we think of race is a social construct and I believe ethnicity is a more proper term.
• I'm not sure if Chauvin was racist, but I don't believe what he did to Floyd was justified and it was a demonstration of sin (but he deserves prayer none the less)
• I think the BLM organization is unbiblical and I don't agree with their platform (although I'm fine with an organization combating police brutality and corruption against all people groups)
• I'm fine with the protests, just not the looting

However, Blacks aren't monolithic (as Jo_Was has already pointed out) so my options belong only to me, but I know for a fact other Black Christians share my views (two being Samuel Sey and Darrell B. Harrison)

Hey there. I agree with what your saying. I think ethnicity isn't even appropriate. I think the one and only term we ought to be using is culture. If we just changed "ethnicity" and "race" out for "CULTURE", and since language is a powerful tool, we would be on the right track towards thinking about so-called "race" correctly.

 

[Stephen L Smith]

The Maori are not indigenous to those islands. They travelled there and ate the people they found.

They are probably the first inhabitants.

 

[Pergamum]

I'm black, so I'll bite.

Do many black people bite? Is this something I need to watch out for?

 

[Pergamum]

The Maori are not indigenous to those islands. They travelled there and ate the people they found.

That is the secret.

Protip: If you eat all your enemies then there are ZERO aggrieved ancestors to demand reparations later!

 

[Stephen L Smith]

That is the secret.

Protip: If you eat all your enemies then there are ZERO aggrieved ancestors to demand reparations later!

Pergamum,
Your quote is incorrect. The quote was by Alexander Smith. I actually disagreed with it and responded thus:

They are probably the first inhabitants.

 

[Pergamum]

Pergamum,
Your quote is incorrect. The quote was by Alexander Smith. I actually disagreed with it and responded thus:

Oh.... but now we will never know who the first inhabitants were! But I bet they were DELICIOUS!

 

[alexandermsmith]

Hey there. I agree with what your saying. I think ethnicity isn't even appropriate. I think the one and only term we ought to be using is culture. If we just changed "ethnicity" and "race" out for "CULTURE", and since language is a powerful tool, we would be on the right track towards thinking about so-called "race" correctly.

That assumes there's no correlation between race and culture. I'm not sure on what one could base such an assumption.