Benedict Option (Rod Dreher)

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
who is Aitken and why should we regard him and what works he condemns and endorses
Who is Dreher and why should we care what he writes? Or, for that matter, who is Poe and why should we care what he likes or dislikes?

If this had been a serious question, the answer would be the quality of his work. If he assimilates good information and makes reasoned and thoughtful points on it, that is of value no matter what else is true about him.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
The Benedict Arnold Option = Let's turn our back on trying to transform the world and hide away.

I think we need to be MORE involved in all areas of life and not less. Especially politics.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
The irony here is that I am generally skeptical about how much good some spunky worldview Christians can do in politics. You aren't going to take down the deep state. Dreher just wants to friendly up to the Deep State so that they spare him in the purge.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
The irony here is that I am generally skeptical about how much good some spunky worldview Christians can do in politics. You aren't going to take down the deep state. Dreher just wants to friendly up to the Deep State so that they spare him in the purge.
Christianity triumphed over Rome and the Germanic Tribes and the Norse. Why not triumph over the Jewish Bankers and Lizard people, too?
 

Jerusalem Blade

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Jacob, re your post #30, I can appreciate your weariness of past abuses & failures, but what are we going do – i.e., how gather – when we can no longer do so in traditional meetings in church buildings (if you can envision that coming – and I can)?
 

J.L. Allen

Puritan Board Freshman
The biblical governance of the Presbyterian model works quite well with house churches. No need to have men unqualified for ministry. Let them that are called be ordained. Train them, lay hands upon them, support them. Presbyteries become neighborhoods and towns instead of entire regions. Services consist of a few families meeting at houses that can accommodate them. This is very much how it was in the apostolic age and just beyond.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Jacob, re your post #30, I can appreciate your weariness of past abuses & failures, but what are we going do – i.e., how gather – when we can no longer do so in traditional meetings in church buildings (if you can envision that coming – and I can)?

It needs to be strictly regulated by church courts, otherwise it is only a (sometimes literal) breeding ground for abuses.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
This might put me in the minority, but I believe we live in the final days of prophecy. We aren't going to be taking back society.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
The Benedict Arnold Option = Let's turn our back on trying to transform the world and hide away.

I think we need to be MORE involved in all areas of life and not less. Especially politics.

It is literally not possible to be more involved in politics than evangelicals as a whole have been in the last 40 years.

If you haven’t been privy to ministries who basically teach that you need to “get saved,” vote Republican and maybe don’t imbibe, and don’t really teach or emphasize anything else other than donating, you need to get out more. That by far has been the practice of most evangelical churches, where “discipleship” of the youth tends to equate to pale imitations of worldly entertainment, abstinence and voting Republican. Not that voting Republican is wrong! But there has been an outsized emphasis on it, with the idea among far too many being that everything will be OK if we just get the right people into office.

Now that the ballot box seems to have failed at a time in which fundamental freedoms are at risk, you see what you saw at the Capitol last week. I doubt that’s the last we’ll see of it. All that is going to do is hasten the loss of those freedoms. And more people than I would have expected are defending it. I’m in a FB group where Reformed ministers are equating those goons with the Founding Fathers.

The QAnon cult seems to be sweeping through the churches. I know at least one RB pastor who has been promoting it for about a year or maybe more. My FB feed is filled with it. And by and large these are people who seemed sane and more or less sound a few years ago.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that Christians have largely been trying to fight a culture war at the ballot box. That’s way too late in the process. It’s also why nothing really seems to change even though Republicans win elections. There should have been much more of an emphasis infiltrating academia and related things 40-50 years ago. And even constitutional law, which is dominated on the “conservative” side by libertarians (think Gorsuch, whose betrayal was as bad as Roe and Griswold) and Catholics, many of whom aren’t really that conservative.


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Taylor

Puritan Board Senior
Perhaps the biggest problem is that Christians have largely been trying to fight a culture war at the ballot box. That’s way too late in the process.
It's also too high in the process. Culture is "won" or "taken back" in the family. Yes, voting matters. Being involved in local politics also matters. But a republic only works with a moral (i.e., Christian) populace, and that begins in the family.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
Who is Dreher and why should we care what he writes? Or, for that matter, who is Poe and why should we care what he likes or dislikes?

If this had been a serious question, the answer would be the quality of his work. If he assimilates good information and makes reasoned and thoughtful points on it, that is of value no matter what else is true about him.

Who is Dreher and why should we care what he writes? Or, for that matter, who is Poe and why should we care what he likes or dislikes?

If this had been a serious question, the answer would be the quality of his work. If he assimilates good information and makes reasoned and thoughtful points on it, that is of value no matter what else is true about him.

Sure. But I don’t post about lizard people and Hollywood elites harvesting adrenochrome, which is one of the cornerstones of the QAnon cult.


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Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
It is literally not possible to be more involved in politics than evangelicals as a whole have been in the last 40 years.

If you haven’t been privy to ministries who basically teach that you need to “get saved,” vote Republican and maybe don’t imbibe, and don’t really teach or emphasize anything else other than donating, you need to get out more. That by far has been the practice of most evangelical churches, where “discipleship” of the youth tends to equate to pale imitations of worldly entertainment, abstinence and voting Republican. Not that voting Republican is wrong! But there has been an outsized emphasis on it, with the idea among far too many being that everything will be OK if we just get the right people into office.

Now that the ballot box seems to have failed at a time in which fundamental freedoms are at risk, you see what you saw at the Capitol last week. I doubt that’s the last we’ll see of it. All that is going to do is hasten the loss of those freedoms. And more people than I would have expected are defending it. I’m in a FB group where Reformed ministers are equating those goons with the Founding Fathers.

The QAnon cult seems to be sweeping through the churches. I know at least one RB pastor who has been promoting it for about a year or maybe more. My FB feed is filled with it. And by and large these are people who seemed sane and more or less sound a few years ago.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that Christians have largely been trying to fight a culture war at the ballot box. That’s way too late in the process. It’s also why nothing really seems to change even though Republicans win elections. There should have been much more of an emphasis infiltrating academia and related things 40-50 years ago. And even constitutional law, which is dominated on the “conservative” side by libertarians (think Gorsuch, whose betrayal was as bad as Roe and Griswold) and Catholics, many of whom aren’t really that conservative.


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Sure, we could both work harder and smarter.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Sure. But I don’t post about lizard people and Hollywood elites harvesting adrenochrome, which is one of the cornerstones of the QAnon cult.


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The Reptilians want you to doubt. That is how they capture and harvest your children for adenochrome.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Sure. But I don’t post about lizard people and Hollywood elites harvesting adrenochrome, which is one of the cornerstones of the QAnon cult.

I was thinking the elites were harvesting adrenochrome long before QAnon came on the scene. To be sure, I think what we call "lizard people" are demonic entities (the Nachash) in skin suits. Their control over the government is indirect.
 

ZackF

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Wilberforce helped stop the slave trade by being in office.
While true, it came about after decades. His office was a vehicle to make contacts and gain a platform to change minds. I don’t see that much today.
 

JM

Puritan Board Doctor
True. I don't think we will outvote the Lizard people. Remember, it's who counts the votes. That's why voting is now seen for the farce it is.

The Reptilian Elite - Conspiracy Theories - TIME


I think we've listened to/read the same podcasts/blogs lol
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
While true, it came about after decades. His office was a vehicle to make contacts and gain a platform to change minds. I don’t see that much today.
Some of these folks have been in Congress 40 years. Is that not enough time to make a difference?
 

ZackF

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Some of these folks have been in Congress 40 years. Is that not enough time to make a difference?
That my point. Wilberforce wasn’t an empty suit. He was a believer and had a mission while at the same time knew change would be a plod.
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
Sure. But I don’t post about lizard people and Hollywood elites harvesting adrenochrome, which is one of the cornerstones of the QAnon cult.
I understand. Dead flies make ointment stink, and not everyone successfully resists the sweet siren song of Dale Gribble. But questions of prestige and respectability should not be confused with questions of truth and accuracy.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
and not everyone successfully resists the sweet siren song of Dale Gribble
And I have learned, Ruben, that I am hopelessly ill-equipped to engage "culture."

Once again I had to google something to know what is talked about. And, no doubt, once again Google has added to my "clueless" dossier.

Oh--I stand corrected. It was Bing that I used for searching.
 

Puritan Sailor

Puritan Board Doctor
That my point. Wilberforce wasn’t an empty suit. He was a believer and had a mission while at the same time knew change would be a plod.
I don't want to belittle the accomplishments of Wilberforce at all, but he lived in a different time, when Christian morality was still the predominant moral consensus of the culture, and his call to consistent treatment of those made in God's image still resonated with enough people to make a difference. We don't have that moral consensus or worldview anymore. At best, we may find some political cobelligerents with those who still believe in a universal moral standard and definition of human nature (i.e. Islam, Judaism, Mormons, etc.). But the anti-Christian left has no common ground to work with here at all. They have an a priori presupposition that Christianity is oppressive and white supremacist, and therefore must be silenced without dialogue. That worldview is completely irrational nonsense, driven by strong emotion, but it's still there, and they control the reigns of power now (government, education, media...). Pretty soon, it won't matter if you get elected to office. If you don't pass their litmus test, you will be removed from office. Sadly, the Marxists have been more effective at making disciples than the Church has been lately. We need to rethink our engagement strategy for now. I think Dreher (in his Live Not By Lies) at least is asking the right sort of questions, even if we may not agree with all his answers. How does the church hold together, stay on task, and effectively resist until this "progressive" storm has self-destructed like the other oppressive regimes of the past? Learning from Christians who suffered under communism is certainly a good place to start. Just thinking out loud. Certainly open to feedback from others here.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
I think Dreher (in his Live Not By Lies) at least is asking the right sort of questions, even if we may not agree with all his answers. How does the church hold together, stay on task, and effectively resist until this "progressive" storm has self-destructed like the other oppressive regimes of the past? Learning from Christians who suffered under communism is certainly a good place to start. Just thinking out loud. Certainly open to feedback from others here.

I agree. People don't like one or two of his answers (I doubt anyone likes them all) or don't like something he tweets or blogs and just want to dismiss him altogether. He's also not guilty of being some kind of neo-anabaptist and doesn't counsel some kind of total withdrawal from the public square. As I understand it (and he isn't real clear at times on the BenOp, and I think some of it is probably wrong) he is mainly calling for a change in emphasis, arguing that too much hope has been put into political activism while professing Christians of all types are often blind to how the culture and technology is affecting their kids, how spiritual formation or discipleship or whatever is often non-existent.

As seen with a post above, he'd be better off to keep his thoughts to himself at times, but, for better or worse, putting so many of his thoughts out there (including all of the info on his family--something I'd never do) is how he has gotten all of his book contracts except maybe for the first one. And he's developed this niche where professors and others who are in the "closet" send him info on the latest outrage in academia or the corporate world. I wouldn't be surprised if others were warning of a social credit system coming to the USA, but I'm not aware of them.

I think he might not actually be pessimistic enough when it comes to saying that it will only be "soft totalitarianism" rather than the more familiar "hard totalitarianism" as seen in the USSR, Nazi Germany, and Red China. But with all of the surveillance and "woke capitalism" and academia etc in concert with the state, it may not be necessary. (With the social credit system, China is not going to have to resort to the methods of the 1960s either.) After the Capitol "riot" or whatever you want to call it, Dems, including the types who ended up decrying the Patriot Act, are going to push for increased surveillance and other crackdowns. This is despite the fact that some of the offenders had openly posted what they had in mind. With a social credit system, a lot of people are going to get the idea without having to go to a gulag or reeducation camp.
 
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