Biblical Languages and Systematic Theology

[John The Baptist]

Hello friends, I am in need of some advice.

I attend Midwestern Baptist Seminary and I am in the MDiv program with a biblical languages emphasis. This emphasis has 12 hours of Greek and 12 of Hebrew. When I began, this was the emphasis which seemed to fit me most as they did not have but 5-6.

This week they added 14 more emphases, including biblical theology and Christian theology (systematic). Biblical theology has 12 hours of one language of your choice and 6 of the other. Christian theology has 6 of each like the standard MDiv.

Here is where I need the advice. I love systematics, and would like to teach it some day. Biblical studies (at an academic level) seems too skeptical and I am not interested. I don’t know much about biblical theology, so I am going to read some books on biblical theology and see if it piques my interest.

Here are a few questions I have about the whole ordeal:

How important is the languages to systematic theology at an academic level?

Are upper level Greek/Hebrew classes going to be that much more helpful than the introductory classes? Especially in pastoral ministry.

I’ve gotten some things twisted around and I will have to wait an entire semester and a summer after Greek 2 before I take Greek 3. I’m afraid I am going to ‘lose it if I don’t use it’ and I might as well switch to Christian Theology and move on.

A professor gave me some advice concerning languages, that you can always catch up on systematics but languages take time to learn. This has stuck with me.

I am not very interested in taking Hebrew to the end (all 12 hours), so Biblical Theology seems like a compromise between the two, but I don’t know much about how Biblical theology would work into the next, likely more systematically oriented degree. I’m sure it likely doesn’t matter too much at the masters level¿?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!!

In Christ,

 

[Solparvus]

Hi friend. As a language lover let me step in.

To paraphrase John Wesley, if you don't know the languages, you're at the mercy of anyone who pretends they do.

How many weeks is each of your semesters? What time is 12 credits in terms of total weeks spent studying?

You want to get through your "elementary" classes for sure (first 6 credits?). These classes will at least give you all the grammatical aspects necessary to understand what you are reading. After this, with consistent reading practice, you should be able to read any part of the NT and know where you are and what's going on, with a little additional insight.

I'm guessing the other six hours are more exegetical. Yes, you want these. There's much more to languages than knowing that a Greek verb is an aorist passive or a Hebrew one is a hiphil. Without these classes you end up with a mechanical view of how the Bible languages work when it's much more complex. Also, they will equip you for dealing with linguistic controversies. And these get technical! Ultimately, it helps you in the task you'll need to perform week-to-week: rightly divide the Word, get its real meaning, so you can bring it to God's people.

Remember that systematics ultimately builds on exegesis. Languages are therefore at the the "granular level" of the systematic super-structure. If the original doesn't support it, it doesn't belong in the system. I need work in systematics, but I do see things will often pivot around translations, nuances, controversies about certain words or concepts in the originals. Good linguistic education in Greek and Hebrew will help you to competently deal with these.

I personally believe pastors should aim for academic excellence, so far as the calling allows. I recently read that Van Til pursued his higher education for the purpose of being able to shepherd his people better. His place in academic circles came as the work of God's providence.

 

[Solparvus]

I'll add, we Americans are monolinguists and so language acquisition doesn't come easy to us. It's a serious pain point of students. However, it's an exercise of necessary self-denial to take it on, and I can say I have no regrets at all for pains taken in the languages. Don't back off because of difficulty. The discipline is indispensible.

 

[John The Baptist]

Hi friend. As a language lover let me step in.

To paraphrase John Wesley, if you don't know the languages, you're at the mercy of anyone who pretends they do.

How many weeks is each of your semesters? What time is 12 credits in terms of total weeks spent studying?

You want to get through your "elementary" classes for sure (first 6 credits?). These classes will at least give you all the grammatical aspects necessary to understand what you are reading. After this, with consistent reading practice, you should be able to read any part of the NT and know where you are and what's going on, with a little additional insight.

I'm guessing the other six hours are more exegetical. Yes, you want these. There's much more to languages than knowing that a Greek verb is an aorist passive or a Hebrew one is a hiphil. Without these classes you end up with a mechanical view of how the Bible languages work when it's much more complex. Also, they will equip you for dealing with linguistic controversies. And these get technical! Ultimately, it helps you in the task you'll need to perform week-to-week: rightly divide the Word, get its real meaning, so you can bring it to God's people.

Remember that systematics ultimately builds on exegesis. Languages are therefore at the the "granular level" of the systematic super-structure. If the original doesn't support it, it doesn't belong in the system. I need work in systematics, but I do see things will often pivot around translations, nuances, controversies about certain words or concepts in the originals. Good linguistic education in Greek and Hebrew will help you to competently deal with these.

I personally believe pastors should aim for academic excellence, so far as the calling allows. I recently read that Van Til pursued his higher education for the purpose of being able to shepherd his people better. His place in academic circles came as the work of God's providence.

I appreciate your insight, it is very valuable.

To answer some of your questions:
Each semester is 14 weeks. And yes, Greek 1 and 2 is 6 credit hours.

I’m waiting to make any definitive decision until I complete Greek 2, and I will ask the profs what 3 and 4 look like, but I imagine you’re right with the exegetical aspect.

I'll add, we Americans are monolinguists and so language acquisition doesn't come easy to us. It's a serious pain point of students. However, it's an exercise of necessary self-denial to take it on, and I can say I have no regrets at all for pains taken in the languages. Don't back off because of difficulty. The discipline is indispensible.

This is a much needed gentle rebuke, as my weariness towards the end of the semester is certainly contributing to my desire to switch and settle for 6 hours of each.

 

[Charles Johnson]

My only advice is that one learns Greek through reading Greek every day, not so much in a class room. There's nothing wrong with taking a class, of course, but putting in the leg work to memorize the terms used in the new testament and to read at least a chapter of the bible a day is what actually gets you able to understand the bible in Greek in the way that you would understand another language.
When I took Greek I got good grades, but at the end of it I couldn't really understand Greek. Now I can. But the difference was the sort of studying I described, not more classes.

 

[Solparvus]

I appreciate your insight, it is very valuable.

To answer some of your questions:
Each semester is 14 weeks. And yes, Greek 1 and 2 is 6 credit hours.

I’m waiting to make any definitive decision until I complete Greek 2, and I will ask the profs what 3 and 4 look like, but I imagine you’re right with the exegetical aspect.


This is a much needed gentle rebuke, as my weariness towards the end of the semester is certainly contributing to my desire to switch and settle for 6 hours of each.

It sounds like what I just finished for Greek. Our semesters are a bit weird (3 quarters of school every year). We have three of elementary Greek and 2 of NT Exegesis, in which Greek is no small part. I recently completed the NT Exegesis, and the benefit is fantastic!

 

[John The Baptist]

It sounds like what I just finished for Greek. Our semesters are a bit weird (3 quarters of school every year). We have three of elementary Greek and 2 of NT Exegesis, in which Greek is no small part. I recently completed the NT Exegesis, and the benefit is fantastic!

Unfortunately, our NT classes do not require Greek. This makes me think Greek 3 and 4 are more like your NT exegesis.

 

[John The Baptist]

My only advice is that one learns Greek through reading Greek every day, not so much in a class room. There's nothing wrong with taking a class, of course, but putting in the leg work to memorize the terms used in the new testament and to read at least a chapter of the bible a day is what actually gets you able to understand the bible in Greek in the way that you would understand another language.
When I took Greek I got good grades, but at the end of it I couldn't really understand Greek. Now I can. But the difference was the sort of studying I described, not more classes.

This is good advice, and I’ll start. A chapter a day is almost daunting at my level

 

[Charles Johnson]

This is good advice, and I’ll start. A chapter a day is almost daunting at my level

That's true. I didn't start out with a chapter a day. What I started out with was reading until I had noted 5 or so new words that I didn't know, making anki cards for them to be able to review them each day.

 

[Anti-Babylon]

Hello friends, I am in need of some advice.

I attend Midwestern Baptist Seminary and I am in the MDiv program with a biblical languages emphasis. This emphasis has 12 hours of Greek and 12 of Hebrew. When I began, this was the emphasis which seemed to fit me most as they did not have but 5-6.

This week they added 14 more emphases, including biblical theology and Christian theology (systematic). Biblical theology has 12 hours of one language of your choice and 6 of the other. Christian theology has 6 of each like the standard MDiv.

Here is where I need the advice. I love systematics, and would like to teach it some day. Biblical studies (at an academic level) seems too skeptical and I am not interested. I don’t know much about biblical theology, so I am going to read some books on biblical theology and see if it piques my interest.

Here are a few questions I have about the whole ordeal:

How important is the languages to systematic theology at an academic level?

Are upper level Greek/Hebrew classes going to be that much more helpful than the introductory classes? Especially in pastoral ministry.

I’ve gotten some things twisted around and I will have to wait an entire semester and a summer after Greek 2 before I take Greek 3. I’m afraid I am going to ‘lose it if I don’t use it’ and I might as well switch to Christian Theology and move on.

A professor gave me some advice concerning languages, that you can always catch up on systematics but languages take time to learn. This has stuck with me.

I am not very interested in taking Hebrew to the end (all 12 hours), so Biblical Theology seems like a compromise between the two, but I don’t know much about how Biblical theology would work into the next, likely more systematically oriented degree. I’m sure it likely doesn’t matter too much at the masters level¿?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!!

In Christ,

I am just replying to say God bless you as you go forward

 

[John The Baptist]

I should mention that we are using Mounce’s book, and he does a good job (I think) of making exegesis an important part of our study. Same with my prof. So, each week is fairly heavy just on interpretation/exegesis.

 

[TheInquirer]

For me personally, Systematic Theology has been extremely helpful in my ministry to the church. Two semesters of Greek has only been moderately helpful. I am sure I will get plenty of pushback but I think languages are overemphasized. They are not unimportant, but I think less important than a whole lot of other things, especially theology. Spending insane amounts of hours memorizing paradigms and all the exceptions to paradigms when I can get a software program to parse for me in an instant doesn’t make sense. I would rather leverage the knowledge of language experts and software programs and spend my time elsewhere.

 

[iainduguid]

Perhaps unsurprisingly this is a topic about which godly people may come to different conclusions. When my grandfather barely scraped through his Hebrew exams at Aberdeen University in the 1920's his professor reminded him that he had been called to preach the gospel in English, not Greek and Hebrew!
It is also fascinating to compare the respective addresses of Gresham Machen at the founding of Westminster with Martyn Lloyd Jones at the founding of London Theological Seminary. The former affirmed that a comprehensive knowledge of Greek and Hebrew was necessary to preach the Bible, while the latter (clearly responding to Machen some forty years later) pointed out that throughout church history some very able preachers knew little or nothing of the original languages. Certainly it is true that love for the Scriptures and for the gospel are far more important than academic knowledge, but if we love the Scriptures and the gospel, wouldn't we want the fullest knowledge of these that are possible for us? And if the Holy Spirit inspired the Scriptures in Greek and Hebrew (and Aramaic!), shouldn't we press on to the fullest possible knowledge of these languages for us? That will not be the same level for everyone, just as not every pastor around the world has the opportunities available to us in the US to get a seminary level education. There are many preachers around the world who every day face challenges for the sake of the gospel that are unthinkable to me, in many cases armed only with a rudimentary Scripture in their own language. I am not worthy to untie their sandals.

Having said that, for those that have the opportunity, it makes sense to me that we should invest heavily in the basics before adding on extras. I would rather most students get a couple of extra hours of Hebrew tuition than take an elective on the Theology of Karl Barth. That would enable them to read with the level of fluency that Charles rightly recommended earlier as desirable in order to really grow in their proficiency through a lifetime by comfortably reading significant amounts of Hebrew every week (much harder with Hebrew than Greek because the vocabulary is far larger). Likewise a solid grasp of Biblical Studies seems to me a primary prerequisite for further studies in Systematic Theology, in part because I am committed to the vision of Geerhardus Vos that Systematic Theology gathers up the fruits of Biblical Theology and sets them together in an ordered fashion (as opposed to the alternative view that it is really a subdivision of Historical Theology). At Westminster, our Hebrew students exit Hebrew 3 able to point unpointed texts and converse in Hebrew; they continue to develop their exegetical skills by using Hebrew in all of their Biblical Studies classes. To me, the fruits are evident in their preaching, which flows from genuine first hand exegesis of the Biblical text. But I understand that not everyone has such an opportunity, and am grateful that at the end of the day, preaching is about the work of the Holy Spirit in and through those whom he has called, not their level of technical competence.

 

[John The Baptist]

@iainduguid, thank you for your thoughtful response.

As I mentioned earlier, I am delaying a definitive decision until I know where I am after Greek 2. I likewise am going to converse with the professor and get a feel for how exegesis heavy Greek 3 and 4 are. The heavier, the more likely I am to stick with it. Hopefully a majority of the memorization is done by then??

 

[MChase]

@iainduguid, thank you for your thoughtful response.

As I mentioned earlier, I am delaying a definitive decision until I know where I am after Greek 2. I likewise am going to converse with the professor and get a feel for how exegesis heavy Greek 3 and 4 are. The heavier, the more likely I am to stick with it. Hopefully a majority of the memorization is done by then??

Unfortunately, probably not; typically biblical language programs jump very quickly to exegesis and after the first year memorization is sidelined. A program like Carter suggests (which is very similar to the Master Biblical language program) is the best way to be reading the Bible and genuinely understanding it as a text instead of a textbook.

 

[TheInquirer]

I would rather most students get a couple of extra hours of Hebrew tuition than take an elective on the Theology of Karl Barth.

If you have to decide between Hebrew and Barth, maybe pick Hebrew (though critiquing Barth would be quite profitable if taught as such). If you have to decide between Hebrew and Bavinck, pick Bavinck.

Note that what Machen and others said in the past was long before the rise of modern tools that make short work of parsing, quickly looking up vocabulary and grammar from the best minds in Christian history, and reading commentators like Dr. Duguid that actually understand why one translation is preferred over another. I would rather read Dr. Duguid's thoughts on the matter than trust my own novice abilities.

I don't have a wide understanding of how Greek and Hebrew are taught, but I felt my own education was training me (using Mounce's textbook) to be a translator. I did not wish to be a translator but a competent exegete. Perhaps I needed to go into more advanced studies to scratch that itch. At any rate, I got more out of my hermeneutics classes than my language classes.

I wish language classes spent far less time teaching students to translate by sight for exams and more on how the languages work functionally and how to use software tools to answer exegetical questions. I don't care if my pastor can translate the original text into English - I don't need him for that. I need him to exegete the Word of God accurately. And you need more than language skills to do that.

In reality, even if you take 4 semesters in each of the languages, are you truly competent enough to argue with lifelong Greek and Hebrew experts who are writing commentaries and working on translation teams? Getting enough knowlege to be able to use tools and understand commentaries is helpful, but depending on how the languages are taught, you might be spending a whole lot of time memorizing information that may not be all that beneficial in the long run. And you will lose it if you don't use it.

Really it is a matter of trade offs in your seminary experience. Pick whatever you feel will best equip you to serve the church. This takes prioritization and wisdom and will be different depending on your situation.

 

[John The Baptist]

And you will lose it if you don't use it.

This is another one of my fears, but simply reading for translation and exegesis daily would probably help, until I am, DV, in pastoral/preaching ministry.