Bodily discharges

Status
Not open for further replies.
Curt

Curt

Puritan Board Graduate
As our congregation reads through the OT (and the Gospels) serially in our corporate worship, the next two readings are these:
  • Lev. 15:13-18
  • Lev. 15:19-33.
13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean . 14 And on the eighth day he shall take to him two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, and come before the LORD unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and give them unto the priest: 15 And the priest shall offer them, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD for his issue. 16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. 17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. 18 The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. 19 And if a woman have an issue , and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean : every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean . 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth , when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all , and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean . 25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. 26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. 27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean , and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean . 29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness. 31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them. 32 This is the law of him that hath an issue , and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith; 33 And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her that is unclean.​


We have a good number of young people ages infant to teen in our congregation. I'm not worried about the teens or the infants, but the 4 to around 10 year olds. I wonder if we should be reading this aloud to them.

I realize that it is God's Word, but I wonder if this is for reading with parents.

What think you?
 
My first question is whether 4 to 10 year olds were present when the Law was given.

My second question is whether our rules of "propriety" are somewhat manufactured given the apparent... straightforwardness, shall we say, of the text of Scripture.
 
You can read it and then let parents assume their responsibility of anwering any questions the little one's have about it.
 
Brother, as a Baptist you may want to examine New Cov. theology and the implications. Not all Scripture is equally profitable. What is binding upon us is given to us by Christ our Lawgiver in e the NT which are the New Cov. Scriptures. Nothing in the OT is binding upon us today unless it has been imported by God into the NT, our governing Scriptures. There is practical wisdom in many of the OC teachings. Doctors have only been washing their hands between patients for just over 100 years. But Jesus was not and is not a rubber stamp for Moses, he gloriously replaces Moses. As for reading it to kids, there are quite a number of OT passages of violence and adultry and fornication that shouldbe handled with care.
 
williamo, check the signature requirements please. ;)

I don't think Curt is trying to tell people they need to observe this part of the Law. His question is whether it should be read out loud in front of youngsters, right?
 
Skyler said:
I don't think Curt is trying to tell people they need to observe this part of the Law. His question is whether it should be read out loud in front of youngsters, right?
Click to expand...

That is correct.
 
Read the Word and entrust the parents to explain any questions their kids might have. Be available to help parents who aren't well prepared.
 
Joshua said:
1. Please fix your signature. You can click on the Signature Rules link in my signature line.
williamo said:
Brother, as a Baptist you may want to examine New Cov. theology and the implications.
Click to expand...
2. Respectfully, what has come to have been called New Covenant Theology is unconfessional and anti-Confessional and a biblically grievous error and is not welcome to be advocated here. So please cease.
What is binding upon us is given to us by Christ our Lawgiver in e the NT which are the New Cov. Scriptures.
Click to expand...
3. Jesus is the Lawgiver. He gave the Law on Sinai. The Psalmist calls the Law of the Lord perfect. That which is perfect needs not replacing. What Jesus "brought" was the light of the true nature of God's Law that the Pharisees had perverted and supplanted with their own. Jesus didn't bring a higher, better, or new Law. He just corrected the Pharisees' poor comprehension of the same Law that the Psalmist loves and calls perfect. Insofar as ceremonial laws go, yes, those have been abrogated, since Christ the substance was exhibited. The judicials, excepting the general equity found therein, also have expired with that nation. However, God's moral law, around long before Sinai and Moses, is inviolable and goes on forever, and is summarily comprehended in the Ten Commandments, affirmed and summed up by Jesus Himself as "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart . . . and love thy neighbour as thyself."

Finally, again, don't bother defending NCT here, because it's not welcome and will be considered a violation of board rules.
Click to expand...


And Josh is back! (not that he went anywhere). Thanks for the reminder.
 
Joshua said:
1. Please fix your signature. You can click on the Signature Rules link in my signature line.
williamo said:
Brother, as a Baptist you may want to examine New Cov. theology and the implications.
Click to expand...
2. Respectfully, what has come to have been called New Covenant Theology is unconfessional and anti-Confessional and a biblically grievous error and is not welcome to be advocated here. So please cease.
What is binding upon us is given to us by Christ our Lawgiver in e the NT which are the New Cov. Scriptures.
Click to expand...
3. Jesus is the Lawgiver. He gave the Law on Sinai. The Psalmist calls the Law of the Lord perfect. That which is perfect needs not replacing. What Jesus "brought" was the light of the true nature of God's Law that the Pharisees had perverted and supplanted with their own. Jesus didn't bring a higher, better, or new Law. He just corrected the Pharisees' poor comprehension of the same Law that the Psalmist loves and calls perfect. Insofar as ceremonial laws go, yes, those have been abrogated, since Christ the substance was exhibited. The judicials, excepting the general equity found therein, also have expired with that nation. However, God's moral law, around long before Sinai and Moses, is inviolable and goes on forever, and is summarily comprehended in the Ten Commandments, affirmed and summed up by Jesus Himself as "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart . . . and love thy neighbour as thyself."

Finally, again, don't bother defending NCT here, because it's not welcome and will be considered a violation of board rules.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
I find it odd that many churches read the Scriptures publicly, but sort of follow this as a tradition of lock-step fasion and never depart from it or add a few explanatory notes, but arise silently, read, and sit silently again, and then move on to the next portion of their liturgy.

I was refreshed at my home church one time when a long list of "begats" occurred, and the reader skipped over to the end of the geneology and kept reading. Another time, an especially hard part of Leviticus was read, and the pastor stood up to summarize the reading rather than let it hang there ackwardly in the name of merely following a church tradition of reading scripture and then sitting down and moving on to the next part of the service.

In other words, if the elders think it wise, then have one of them give a 3 minute summary of this bible reading after the reading is done before moving on to the next part of your service.
 
Pergamum said:
I find it odd that many churches read the Scriptures publicly, but sort of follow this as a tradition of lock-step fasion and never depart from it or add a few explanatory notes, but arise silently, read, and sit silently again, and then move on to the next portion of their liturgy.

I was refreshed at my home church one time when a long list of "begats" occurred, and the reader skipped over to the end of the geneology and kept reading. Another time, an especially hard part of Leviticus was read, and the pastor stood up to summarize the reading rather than let it hang there ackwardly in the name of merely following a church tradition of reading scripture and then sitting down and moving on to the next part of the service.

In other words, if the elders think it wise, then have one of them give a 3 minute summary of this bible reading after the reading is done before moving on to the next part of your service.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
OK, had a similar experience this week and I found the reading inappropriate. Certainly a challenge when families are encouraged to gather for the preaching of God's word and are confronted with untimely exposition.
Jdg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
Jdg 19:23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Jdg 19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
Jdg 19:25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
Jdg 19:26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
Jdg 19:27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
Jdg 19:28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
Jdg 19:29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
Jdg 19:30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.
 
Thanks, folks. Based on your response and input from our elders, we will not be doing those readings in the corporate worship services.

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 PM ----------

BTW, I do not mean to imply that this was some exercise in democracy. I simply valued the input and reflected upon it while praying over what I should do.
 
Thanks for thinking about the kids. I actually would have said it's okay to read these, especially in the translation you quoted, but I appreciate a pastor who's thinking both about honoring the Scriptures and about families and the little ones. Good for you.
 
My two oldest kids are six and four and we have been slowly been reading through the Bible word for word... we are currently almost done with Numbers, so we finished up Leviticus a short while ago. Now granted this is an entirely different case, since it is a father alone reading with his children and able to add commentary on the fly as needed. So, just take this for what it is worth... But, what I will say is that in my case I found that I was able to read just about everything word for word without feeling the need to omit or edit anything. I want to say the only part where I may have skipped or changed something was in relation to Dinah's rape. But, even Dinah's rape we pretty much read everything word for word. When my kids had questions about what the men did to Dinah my wife was there and very masterfully worded it: "He treated her like he was married to her when he wasn't and that is not okay." That seemed to suffice quite well for a six and four year old explanation.

Anyway, I feel I am starting to ramble now, but I guess my point is at the end of the day I do find myself able to read all Scripture (in general) to my children, but find it especially beneficial to be right there with them to add explanation and commentary that will make sense to them. Lastly, I will say that there may simply be no better way to learn your Bible than to have to explain it to young children!!!
 
Will you read the woman with the issue of blood portion in the Gospels?

We must not fear what the Scripture says based on our views of niceness and politeness. ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top