Calvinism vs. Arminianism MUST heat up, because...

[Saved sheep]

...Scripture tells us so in Romans 16, 17(-18).

He who tries to moderate between Calvinism and Arminianism or promotes that arminian teachers can be simply in error but saved all the while, clearly arguments (if he arguments at all) against Scripture.

The point here is: such discussions MUST heat up.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Nice intro into the board: "Hey guys, I won't even tell you my name but I will tell you that many of you don't believe the Scriptures!"

This is just a rehash of very recent threads:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16675
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16575

As your signature indicates you're new to the Reformed faith and you're forsaking the assembly of the Saints in violation of the Word of God, I have two recommendations for you:

1. Get back to Church.
2. Try being a disciple for a little while before you presume to teach. You're too new to this stuff to be admonishing your elders in the faith some of which are actual Elders in Christ's Church.

Hot enough?

[Edited on 2-21-2006 by SemperFideles]

 

[Puritanhead]

Ouch, a Marine officer's rebuke.

Though, I think I would give someone benefit of doubt on being in a church... I've found when I move that it can be hard to find a new congregation.

I acquiesce with the vitality of 2 Timothy 2:24-25.

2 Timothy 2:24-25 (NKJV)
And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle, apt to teach, in humility correcting those who are opposition, if God perhaps may grant them repentance, that God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.

Or in Deutsche too!

2 Timotheus 2:24-25 (Elberfelder)
Ein Knecht des Herrn aber soll nicht streiten, sondern gegen alle milde sein, lehrfähig, duldsam, und die Widersacher in Sanftmut zurechtweisen, ob ihnen Gott nicht etwa Buße gebe zur Erkenntnis der Wahrheit.

We should embrace discipleship and evangelism first and foremost-- it's easy to lose sight of. Sometimes, we just disciple in church and lose sight of evangelism and have to renew our commitment.

Sovereign grace properly understood ought to humble us-- When I stand before God, I won't say I have faith because I was smarter than the next guy or more righteous. I loved him because God first loved me, whereas I was formerly dead in sins and trespasses, but now I am alive in the Holy Spirit.

[Edited on 2-21-2006 by Puritanhead]

 

[satz]

Romans 16:
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple

I don't want to appear to be jumping onto any bandwagons, but i think we all should be more careful in the way we make our points or assertions. Let us not simply shout out a doctrine that we are passionate about without providing the proper backup. Romans 16:17-18 talks about either church discipline or seperation from false teachers. Whilst it might impact on what kind of fellowship we have with arminians, it does not address the issue of whether they or their teachers are saved at all.

This is nothing personal, just making the point that to make a strong dogmatic statement without providing the requisite proofs is sometimes not all that helpful...

 

[turmeric]

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

I just saw this on another messageboard and learned what it means. Just call me an internet idiot!

[Edited on 2-21-2006 by turmeric]

[Edited on 2-21-2006 by turmeric]

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by turmeric
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

I just saw this on another messageboard and learned what it means. Just call me an internet idiot!

Trolls? Meg, I must be a bigger idiot...what DOES it mean?



Robin

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by Robin

Originally posted by turmeric
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

I just saw this on another messageboard and learned what it means. Just call me an internet idiot!

Trolls? Meg, I must be a bigger idiot...what DOES it mean?



Robin

She either means this:

A troll is a member of a fearsome humanoid race from Scandinavian folklore, and its predecessor Norse mythology, as in "The Three Billy Goats Gruff," the well-known Scandinavian folk tale in which a troll living under a bridge torments some billy goats that want to cross. Grendel in the poem Beowulf is a closely similar creature. The word "Troll" is possibly derived from an old norse word meaning magic, cf. Swedish trolla Danish and Norwegian trylle ("perform magic tricks") (Wikipedia)

or this:

From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.

I think she is referring to the first definition and I'm terrified the OP is written by a huge, scary humanoid that lives under a bridge.

 

[Saved sheep]

Hi Rich,

please let me comment your post:

>>Nice intro into the board: "Hey guys, I won't even tell you my name but I will tell you that many of you don't believe the Scriptures!" <<

You´ll find my name at the end of my post. Many of you don´t BELIEVE the Scriptures i didn´t write. Please understand it more in this direction: Many of us believers don´t accept and apply ALL Scripture as it is and commands.


>>This is just a rehash of very recent threads:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16675
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16575<<

As my signature shows, i would not join here if i rated this forum as neutral concerning arminianism. It´s not surprising to find more than one calvinism vs arminianism - discussions here.

The point to make here was special: this controversies by necessity must heat up every time - because Scripture tells it. And your post prove it. ;-)

>>As your signature indicates you're new to the Reformed faith<<

That´s not true. I was regenerated and converted as a four-pointer knowing not even the doctrine that Jesus Christ is God, the Son seconds before. Of course i would not have been able to teach this doctrines proper, but i immediately knew that the arminians around me had false doctrine.

>>and you're forsaking the assembly of the Saints in violation of the Word of God<<

That´s not the case. They violated the Word every week by their constant "decisionism" and their ordaining of a woman as elder. Before the new election of that woman (that was allowed once to tell a horrible fable from the pulpit) i rebuked the whole congregation by speech and by open mail. I refuted and argumented (biblically) against every arguments of them. Their strongest argument was: "But there were even woman working as apostles, like JUNIA" (in Romans 16)

Not ONE "brother" did vote for a delaying and reeximaning the case before the re-election. They explicitly left out 1. Tim 3, 12 in their statutes concerning election, but named the foregoing verses.

"Brothers"? Not at all! They twist the Sciptures to their own damnation.

>>I have two recommendations for you:<<

Thank you!

>>1. Get back to Church.<<

Not very sorry, but i can´t, because i´m already incorporated in the body of Christ Jesus. Don´t you know that YOU are the temple of the living God?

>>2. Try being a disciple for a little while before you presume to teach. You're too new to this stuff to be admonishing your elders in the faith some of which are actual Elders in Christ's Church.<<

They may be elders, but not in the faith.
If Scripture is clear and they violate it constantly, how can they be elders, worthy hearing them? They didn´t even try to argument against my protest concerning 1. Tim 2, 11. Ok, they wrote an email. In that they declared that we all see through a glass darkly, 1. Kor 13, etc.

But not real argument. They are unbelivers, basta.

>>Hot enough?<<

Sorry, but not hot at all.
Just the same non-arguments as pedicted.
Unbiblically, proving nothing but my point.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You just demonstrated to me which kind of fool you are so I won't be answering you according to your folly anymore....

 

[TimeRedeemer]

I feel like I'm missing something in this thread... Is Werner guilty of the charge of teaching elders in his initial post?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by TimeRedeemer
I feel like I'm missing something in this thread... Is Werner guilty of the charge of teaching elders in his initial post?

I think his OP has somehow been trimmed back. He posted in another thread:

On Arminians:

Gal. 1, 6-9

Two groups are adressed here: them that are teached arminianism and them that are teaching that heresy. This is crucial; for the first is hope, for the others is no hope.

Why?

If you ever REALLY INSISTED by Scripture and by reasonable, logical arguments based on Scripture concerning TOTAL depravity and unconditional election, then you know that only three things can happen:

1. After teaching, rebuking, withstanding two, maybe three times the arminian suspect sees his error and admits it (and hopefully repents).
2. After issuing most of the well-known humanistic-arminianistic arguments based on twisted verses (if at all based on Scripture) the suspect will become long wolf-teeth. In effect, he is resisting the Holy Spirit (in refusing the clear Word of Scripture)
3. Ignorance, which is in fact the same as in the second case. Here, his spiritually deadness is just more obvious. He does not receive the truth, too.

The pupils may err and repent after hearing the truth. The teachers are damned.

Romans 16, 17 (This is not an "žoption"œ, do it!)
Romans 16, 18 (the ever-smiling and most-pious arminian. Do you recognize him?)
1. Timotheus 6, 3-5 (Leave the false teachers)
2. Timotheus 3, 1-7 (Not only arminians)
Titus 3, 10-11 (That´s why there is hope for the pupils till rebuked two times)
1. Peter 2, 7-8 (They think their decision is their rock. They are predestinated so.)

This is what Scripture says. There is no room for "žprivat interpretations"œ about false brethren called arminians. Some may say: "žoh, but ARMINIANS are not mentioned."œ If this is the case, then please let me know what groups can be meant.

Again: if you ever REALLY insisted on Scripture in an argument with an arminian than you know: they are God-haters. They then show their real faces. They hate God, Scripture and you.

But they preach! "“ Yes, but another Gospel.
But people come to faith! "“ Yes, because it´s God, the Holy Spirit who bloweth where He wills!

And please consider:

Math. 7, 22-23
Mark 9, 38-40
Luke 9, 49-50

This is no teaching, but please consider it.

If not free-willers in all their forms are meant by Scripture, then what is? Tell me.

Real Arminians are unsaved, but their pupils can be teached the truth. Then they ultimately show their true father.

What do you fear? If an arminian repents, then he will in the end THANK you for beeing "žharsh"œ. (Every opposition is harsh to them.) If he repents not, so you did your job!

Who did "žcall"œ me to say this and interpret Scriptue that way?
It´s simply sola scriptura. I need no inner voice, heavenly revelation besides scripture or a calling by a vision.

The question boils down to this: are you TRULY reformed or not? Do you respect Scripture as the only Holy Revelation?

Ok, pick up the stones.

I agree with Meg. He's a troll.

Truly Reformed do not consider themselves too good for a Christian Church even while they wait and pray for a Reformed body. I don't think he qualifies as Reformed and should not be on this board.

 

[BobVigneault]

Rom 10: 9 ..."if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "œEveryone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Werner, be careful for you will be judged by the same criteria you have used to judge others. Romans 16 indeed!

I am not an admin on this board and do not represent it in any official manner.

So I will speak for my self and PLEASE take this personally...

GO AWAY, GO INFECT SOME OTHER BOARD WITH YOUR MYOPIC and BIGOTTED POISON.

You are not going to be a good fit here. May God in his mercy teach you about his mercy.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Well, we need a break here! Closed.