Can the Church ignore the Metaverse? New statistic boasts 600 Million Monthly Users.

[No Other Name]

The problem is, Christian Rock did have a major influence on culture.

The problem is, even if many are reached through pragmatic compromise this does not mean pragmatic compromise needs to be adopted.

I know that is not what you are advocating for, but it could be inferred by others who do not understand you as well.

God ordains the ends and God ordains the means to the ends.

And any church that puts themselves in the drivers' seat as ordaining the means to the ends of reaching the lost is in error no matter how many genuine conversions come out the other side.

Again, I am not saying you disagree; just clarifying why I said "Amen" to @Charles Johnson 's Christian rock post.

 

[davejonescue]

The problem is, even if many are reached through pragmatic compromise this does not mean pragmatic compromise needs to be adopted.

I know that is not what you are advocating for, but it could be inferred by others who do not understand you as well.

God ordains the ends and God ordains the means to the ends.

And any church that puts themselves in the drivers' seat as ordaining the means to the ends of reaching the lost is in error no matter how many genuine conversions come out the other side.

Again, I am not saying you disagree; just clarifying why I said "Amen" to @Charles Johnson 's Christian rock post.

And I think this will be where the debate arises, much like Chuck Smith had to go through when initiating the Jesus Movement. Is it permissible, and if so, wisdom will be apparent by its children. Many traditionalists in his day thought it compromise to let the long-haired hippies in. Looking back, we easily say that is a wrong approach, that the Gospel is for everybody, but to them, back then, it wasnt so cut and dry.

 

[RamistThomist]

What is the Metaverse?

 

[Pomopu]

I'm still convinced that the online medium itself so perverts the way one receives the gospel message that though the message isn't itself perverted as its chatted about or sermon audio'd or meme'd it is subjectively acquired into our consciousness in a way far stranger than the gospel had been acquired by men and women in the past such that it is in effect a different gospel; not that it is a different gospel, as its communicated on Tik-Tok, but it is basically a different gospel, since the medium flattens the value of all things to that which can be liked, filed away, copy-pasted, made viral, etc. For all intents and purposes, you can't evangelize on the internet.

 

[davejonescue]

What is the Metaverse?

I'm still convinced that the online medium itself so perverts the way one receives the gospel message that though the message isn't itself perverted as its chatted about or sermon audio'd or meme'd it is subjectively acquired into our consciousness in a way far stranger than the gospel had been acquired by men and women in the past such that it is in effect a different gospel; not that it is a different gospel, as its communicated on Tik-Tok, but it is basically a different gospel, since the medium flattens the value of all things to that which can be liked, filed away, copy-pasted, made viral, etc. For all intents and purposes, you can't evangelize on the internet.

Do you think Paul could evangelize to churches through letters?

 

[Pomopu]

View attachment 11565


Do you think Paul could evangelize to churches through letters?

Indeed; but a letter isn't the internet. I don't think he could have in 2024 on the internet.

 

[davejonescue]

Indeed; but a letter isn't the internet. I don't think he could have in 2024 on the internet.

So if I read the letters of Paul on Blue Letter Bible, is it somehow diminished as opposed to if I read my physical Bible? Or could not Paul have emailed the pastor at Rome as opposed to Phoebe risking her life?

 

[Pomopu]

So if I read the letters of Paul on Blue Letter Bible, is it somehow diminished as opposed to if I read my physical Bible? Could not Paul have emailed the pastor at Rome as opposed to Phoebe risking her life?

I see; I would say there is certainly a diminishment; the appartus of Blue Letter Bible is foreign, alien, something possible only for like 1% of history, and I'm sure the church will make a better judgment on it in the future. Disclosure: I use BLBible all the time for class. Yet I'm thinking more in terms of social media proper and gaming platforms.

 

[davejonescue]

I see; I would say there is certainly a diminishment; the appartus of Blue Letter Bible is foreign, alien, something possible only for like 1% of history, and I'm sure the church will make a better judgment on it in the future. Disclosure: I use BLBible all the time for class. Yet I'm thinking more in terms of social media proper and gaming platforms.

Gotcha. But we also have to remember the Reformation kind of hinged on a new technology as well, the Gutenberg.

 

[Pomopu]

Gotcha. But we also have to remember the Reformation kind of hinged on a new technology as well, the Gutenberg.

Fair, fair. Yeah that is interesting. To me, it is so natural to have a paper Bible on my lap. But I get what you are saying, before that it was mostly just hearing it. For my argument to be persuasive I'd somehow have to justify the medium of paper as proper (codex/book or whatever) in contrast to the medium of the laptop or whatever. I'll sit on it more.

 

[Charles Johnson]

View attachment 11565


Do you think Paul could evangelize to churches through letters?

Paul wrote to those already converted.

He evangelized in person.

 

[davejonescue]

Paul wrote to those already converted.

He evangelized in person.

Doesnt really matter with the point I was making. That is in-person, not in-person, etc. has no real bearing on the message conveyed. Its the whole reason the Gideon's place Bibles in motel rooms. Also, a book (of the law) is what convicted Josiah to the heart, not someone talking to him about the Lord. You would have to make a pretty strong case given the wide array of different medium use in this day in age, by almost all churches, from all traditions, to try to say only verbal, face-to-face communication is not only the most effective, but commanded.

 

[Charles Johnson]

Doesnt really matter with the point I was making. That is in-person, not in-person, etc. has no real bearing on the message conveyed. Its the whole reason the Gideon's place Bibles in motel rooms. Also, a book (of the law) is what convicted Josiah to the heart, not someone talking to him about the Lord. You would have to make a pretty strong case given the wide array of different medium use in this day in age, by almost all churches, from all traditions, to try to say only verbal, face-to-face communication is not only the most effective, but commanded.

I don't have to make a "pretty strong case." The Westminster Standards already do so for me.

Q. 155. How is the word made effectual to salvation?
A. The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation.

 

[davejonescue]

I don't have to make a "pretty strong case." The Westminster Standards already do so for me.

Q. 155. How is the word made effectual to salvation?
A. The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation.

And I am sure that works awesome....when people go to church.

 

[Charles Johnson]

And I am sure that works awesome....when people go to church.

You're shifting the goalposts