Celebrating Christmas?

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Moireach

Puritan Board Freshman
Can I start a thread asking for Biblical evidence supporting celebrating Christmas, and Biblical evidence against celebrating Christmas?
It may seem like a pointless topic for discussion but I think it's very important.

P.S Don't state the roots of Christmas alone, rather suggest why they do or do not matter.

All arguments are to be from scripture only.
 
I've always found this bit helpful when it comes to this debate.

ROMANS 14
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

11For it is written,
“AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.”

12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. 14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; 17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. 22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
 
David,

First, please establish your signature per board requirements. Click HERE. Thank you.

Second, go into the advanced search feature (upper right hand corner of the page) and do a search on "Christmas." You fill find more threads on Christmas than you'll know what to do with. In fact, it's nearly Christmas thread heaven!
 
Thanks James, could you briefly state your conclusions from those verses?

Thanks Bill, I have taken a look but I thought it would be ok to start a fresh one, some of the threads are old and there'll be new people who may shed new light on the topic. Also I find it hard to filter through arguments on old threads.

Thanks Josh.
 
Thanks James, could you briefly state your conclusions from those verses?

Thanks Bill, I have taken a look but I thought it would be ok to start a fresh one, some of the threads are old and there'll be new people who may shed new light on the topic. Also I find it hard to filter through arguments on old threads.

Thanks Josh.

My conclusions from the passage is that Christmas is acceptable to celebrate, but that it does not have to be a Church-wide observation. Those like Josh, who suggest that it is forbidden are--I think--in error. Their convictions of this non-observation should however be respected and we shouldn't expect them to conform against their own consciences. However, likewise, I think that they should not condemn their brethren for observing the festival in a religious way. Because to a Christian, there should be NO secular festivals, for we do all things for Christ. This all being said, I'm not in favor of special "Christmas" services--albeit I believe it is important to address the first and second Advents in the preaching of the Word since it is important to equip ourselves to talk about Advent when everyone else is doing so.
 
Rev. Andy Foster, a minister in the Free Presbyterian Church of North America, has posted a very interesting article on his blog considering this subject. This is a link to the post. He takes a completely different stand on the issue of celebrating pagan holidays. It might be worth your looking into.
 
This has been discussed and debated ad nauseum. Suffice it to say that Rev. Foster is pretty wrong and Josh is dead wrong (for more reasons than one, the least of which is his beard.)

I win the thread.
 
ROMANS 14
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.


Context...

Does this say anything about observing a day that has not been approved of by His Word? There is no precedence in following man-made holy days.
It really ends on how and when we worship God. In Spirit and truth. There is some truth in Christmas. Yes, Christ humiliated himself and was born.
AMEN! But all the other hoopla is pure mystic nonsense. And as we all know, partial truth, is no truth at all.

Preach his Humiliation everyday, every waking minute for that matter. This is what we celebrate with our lives. The whole Gospel of truth!
 
ROMANS 14
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.


Context...

Does this say anything about observing a day that has not been approved of by His Word? There is no precedence in following man-made holy days.
It really ends on how and when we worship God. In Spirit and truth. There is some truth in Christmas. Yes, Christ humiliated himself and was born.
AMEN! But all the other hoopla is pure mystic nonsense. And as we all know, partial truth, is no truth at all.

Preach his Humiliation everyday, every waking minute for that matter. This is what we celebrate with our lives. The whole Gospel of truth!

I'm confused, where in the Scriptures are we exhorted to refrain from eating meat? Where are we told that we must not observe cultural celebrations? We are told that whatever we do should be done to honor Christ.
 
The OT is replete with examples of how the heathen nations practices were a snare to Israel. In Deuteronomy 7 Moses gives very vehement warnings that Israel is not to adopt ANY of the heathen nations practices, that these would be a snare to them. Indeed they were a snare and we all know what followed. In Genesis 35 when Jacob is about to go to Bethel to sacrifice he tells his household to put away all their strange gods etc. This included even earrings that must have had some religious significance. How much more then a tree and other greenery all over your house that comes to us directly from Saternalia practices.

As for just making up your own holy day, Jeroboam tried that. He made up his own day of worship complete with new temples and priesthood next door to Judah. Israel was judged for that for generations. Just look up Jeroboam and sin and see how many references you get that look like this: 1 Kings 15:34 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin. They passed down these traditions and caused successive generations to sin. You could say that the RCC church has caused generations of Christians to sin through their sycretism.

As Josh said you have to have a command. There are multiple examples of God saying that Israel or whomever did things that he had not commanded, which clearly infers that we need a commandment to anything in worship.

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

This has been discussed and debated ad nauseum. Suffice it to say that Rev. Foster is pretty wrong and Josh is dead wrong (for more reasons than one, the least of which is his beard.)

I win the thread.

You know, Andrew, for a lawyer your arguments are really bad. :p
 
We are told that whatever we do should be done to honor Christ.
Yes, and when it comes to religious worship, He has ordered it to be done in a certain manner. Whatever not required is forbidden, because there is no such thing as "permitted" worship that i snot commanded. The Scriptures are very clear that God has prescribed how he is to be worshiped, approached, and drawn nigh unto. Christmas (read: Christ-mass) is a product of Rome co-opting heathen worship in order to bring said heathen under its umbrella. It was clearly designated by men for men, and yet carries the pretense of being legitimate Christian worship. We are not at liberty to adopt man-ordered worship. When I do all things "for the glory of God" and the "honor of Christ" it means that I do those lawful things very well, it does not mean that they are specific acts of worship, for such things must be ordered.
[/INDENT]

I would agree that one cannot do unlawful things for Christ's glory--for it would be no glory at all. I think it comes to interpretation of the Regulative Principle. I don't think that the principle is as extreme as you're making it out to be because for one, all of our services of worship follow orders that are not found in Scriptures. Although they contain things that are commanded, are they being carried out as commanded? Have we been given explicit instructions for how we do all the things commanded? Of course you may agree that there is some room for variance in form (that is "how" we carry out commands) but disagree that any religious festival can be properly observed--that it is a "what" and not a "how".
 
I have 2 points for consideration/questions:

1. Could I ask those who have taken either side to support their view with reference to the Westminster Confession of faith? (if you hold to it that is)

2. Also could I ask if either side can come up with passages of scripture that specifically support their view?
For those who think Christmas should be celebrated, and hold to 'Sola Scriptura', I'm interested to hear how they support their view?

Thanks for the two links. And could I add that it would be better to put forward your view with your scripture proof rather than just responding to each other. This way it is less like an argument.
 
For those who think Christmas should be celebrated, and hold to 'Sola Scriptura', I'm interested to hear how they support their view?

David,
I may be wrong, but I don't think you'll find anyone here that says Christmas should be celebrated. Rather, you'll find those who believe it to be a matter of liberty and those who don't.
 
It is a sad state of affairs when people feel at liberty to use the name of Christ in any way they wish. Even attaching it to pagan practices and the abominable popish mass.
 
David,
I may be wrong, but I don't think you'll find anyone here that says Christmas should be celebrated. Rather, you'll find those who believe it to be a matter of liberty and those who don't.

Yeh I mean just those who celebrate it.
 
My conclusions from the passage is that Christmas is acceptable to celebrate, but that it does not have to be a Church-wide observation.

I believe that would be a misapplication of the passage. Granting Christians the judgment of charity and bearing with them as they grow to a more mature understanding of the Christian faith does not imply that everything they do in the process is "acceptable." Just because something is to be regarded as "weakness" rather than condemned as "wickedness" does not mean it is to be encouraged or silently borne with. Weak Christians need to be taught what is right and good. By calling their actions "acceptable" they are encouraged to remain weak, which is not good for them nor for their witness in the world. "Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification," Romans 15:2.
 
Just a question I am throwing out there after my first thought.

To celebrate 'Christmas' in corporate worship would be to bind the conscience of worshippers with that which the Lord does not bind the conscience. I say this because the Lord does not command us to celebrate such a festival/feast day.

Now the question, as parents suppose you celebrate Christmas in your home. Are you binding the conscience of your children in your Christian liberty where there is no command to celebrate such a day/season from God?
 
I am very much looking forward to singing O Come O Come Emmanuel, Oh Come All Ye Faithful and various Psalms this Friday night.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 
My conclusions from the passage is that Christmas is acceptable to celebrate, but that it does not have to be a Church-wide observation.

I believe that would be a misapplication of the passage. Granting Christians the judgment of charity and bearing with them as they grow to a more mature understanding of the Christian faith does not imply that everything they do in the process is "acceptable." Just because something is to be regarded as "weakness" rather than condemned as "wickedness" does not mean it is to be encouraged or silently borne with. Weak Christians need to be taught what is right and good. By calling their actions "acceptable" they are encouraged to remain weak, which is not good for them nor for their witness in the world. "Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification," Romans 15:2.

I don't think I'm completely misapplying the passage, but of course it doesn't directly relate to Christmas and how we celebrate it or don't. So I am making some assumptions and connections. Albeit, I hardly think it "weakness" to set aside yearly time to ponder upon the Incarnation specifically in worship. Outside of worship, gift-giving, decorating our homes with lights and baubles and evergreen trees, is really just cultural for us.

I'm actually curious as to what I'm arguing against now... because the more I read responses, the less I'm entirely sure. Is the opposition saying that ANY observation of "Christmas" or "Advent" or "Yule" in one's home is unacceptable to Christ because we are forbidden from participating in festivals? If so, then I think this position goes far beyond the Regulative Principle. Or, are we arguing against "Christmas Services" and garland being used to decorate the sanctuary? If so, are any non-permanent/non-structural decorations acceptable at any time? Is it inappropriate to sing such hymns as "O' Come, O' Come Emanuel" and "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" at this time of year? Would it be inappropriate for pastors to take this time to focus on the Advents of the Lord (that is the Nativity and the Second-Coming)?
 
Now the question, as parents suppose you celebrate Christmas in your home. Are you binding the conscience of your children in your Christian liberty where there is no command to celebrate such a day/season from God?

Oh please. Bind the consciences of my children? There is no command to celebrate birthdays, Thanksgiving, or New Years either, so am I binding their consciences with those as well? That's simply ridiculous.
 
Josh (and others) I have asked this before and I shall ask it again: does the celebration of Christmas constitute an element or a circumstance of worship?

Also (while on the topic) was synagogue worship commanded by God under the old covenant?
 
I am very Puritanical and so I do not celebrate Christmas. These are my arguments taken from Gillespie’s English Popish Ceremonies and David Calderwood’s Perth assembly:

Holy Days-
1. Diminish the importance of the Lord's day.

2. Monuments of past by idolatry.

3. Idols themselves.

4. God commands that we work on common days and if there is no prohibition to work, such as the Sabbath, we are commanded to work and redeem the time (Exo 20:9, Eph 5:16).

5. Duet 12:29-32; Holy days such as Christmas are not simply traditional days for public remembrance, heritage or civil celebration but are synchristic acts of religious worship that combine elements of Christianity and paganism.

6. Not just a family day, but more solemn and religious than the weekly Sabbath.

7. The Lord’s Day is given to remember all of Christ’s work and has apostolic authority in it’s practice. No other day commemorating any other work of Christ is commanded or practiced by apostolic example and therefore forbidden.

8. Relics of idolatry are never to be Christianized as the Roman religion seeks. Therefore, our relationship to Christmas trees is at least analogous to what Hezekiah did to the brazen serpent that had of late been used in superstitious worship (2 Kings 18:4). He did not baptize it, he destroyed it.

9. Christmas DayThe day Jesus died is referred to as the Passover in John 18:39. This celebration begins after sundown on the 14th day of Nisan which on our calendar would be in the middle of March. According to Daniel 9:24-27 there are 70 weeks (Weeks are periods of seven years) determined for Israel. There are 69 weeks from the building of the temple to Messiah. The Messiah’s ministry is in the midst of the 70th week and an in the middle of this week he is killed and his death puts an end to the sacrificial system (Mat 27:51). Therefore, his ministry began at the end of the 69th week and continued until the middle of the 70th week, making his ministry exactly 3 and ½ years in duration. Jesus began his ministry when he was 30 (Luk 3:23) years old as was tradition among the Levite priests from the command of God in the law (Num 4:3). Therefore, his death was in mid March; 6 months before mid March is mid September and three years before that is obviously mid September. He began his ministry the same time as his 30th birthday, therefore he was born in the month of September not even close to December 25th . 10. Jesus was born and in the same day was lying in a manger (Luke 2:16). After eight days he received circumcision (vs 21). Even as Mat 2:1 and the context reveal, the magi who came bearing gifts came much later after his birthday; as is added by Mat 2:11 they found him in a house as compared with his manger birth. These were not birthday gifts and it was not the first Christmas celebration.

In reference to PF’s complaint about the synagogue this is a classic Federal Vision argument. I did quite a large study on the issue. You can read my article on it here: The Synagogue and the Regulative Principle by Drake Shelton - The Kings Parlor

Not all things done in the Old Covenant need scriptural evidence from the Hebrew text that underlies our Protestant canons. Greg Price in his Defending the Reformation Regulative Principle of Worship; or, Was Synagogue Worship Regulated By God's Revealed Word? says, "a. Blood sacrifices were required by God, though no explicit authorization was recorded (Gen. 4:1-7). Thus, it must be inferred that God revealed His will concerning blood sacrifices to Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel, but did not record His original authorization in Scripture. b. Clean animals were offered in sacrifice by Noah rather than unclean animals (Gen. 8:20-21). Where does God specifically authorize clean animals and forbid unclean animals in sacrifice? Or where does God identify which animals are clean and which are unclean prior to the Levitical law?" etc.
 
Common objections:

i. Christ celebrated the feast of the dedication (John 10:22-23) which was not commanded.

Ans. The passage nowhere says he celebrated it. He simply arrives at a gathering of people for the purpose of preaching.

ii. Purim was observed by the Jews and it was not commanded (Est 9:26-29).

Ans. This is not a holy day but a civil celebration (Est 9:19-22).

iii. Paul kept the feast of Pentecost. Acts 20:16, 1 Cor 16:8

Ans. This is the Jewish Pentecost, for the Pentecost celebrated by the sheepish party the seventh Sunday after Easter (Celebrating the descent of the Holy Ghost) is celebrated in many places; yet Paul seeks to leave where he is presently writing to observe Pentecost and explicitly says in Acts 20 he would be coming to Jerusalem to observe it.
 
I very much appreciate the discussions about Christmas, from a Puritan perspective and respect those who choose not to acknowledge Advent/Christmas. I get irked by the implied condemning of those of us who think a moderate "observation" of the Advent/Christmas is within the pale of our Christian liberty.

I devise the order of worship every week for out congregation. I make weekly choices about Scripture readings, prayers, hymns, and the sermon text. During the Advent season I gear these elements toward the Incarnation.

Big deal.
 
I very much appreciate the discussions about Christmas, from a Puritan perspective and respect those who choose not to acknowledge Advent/Christmas. I get irked by the implied condemning of those of us who think a moderate "observation" of the Advent/Christmas is within the pale of our Christian liberty.

My sentiments exactly. But I'm becoming lost into what forms of celebration, if any, are acceptable to those who are arguing against it.
 
I don’t think the modern Presbyterian Church understand what is at stake with this things. First, a denial of a strict application of the reg. principle is also an attack on Presbyterian polity. The issue in the 17th century was that the Anglicans were basing their imposition of ceremonies on their hierarchical office. When you loosen up on the reg. principle this leads the door wide open for hierarchical offices. Second, I have Eastern orthodox Friends who complain to me, “Drake, what is the difference between all my little idols in my house and at my church and all the idols and pagan paraphernalia that protestant decorate their houses and churches with on Christmas.” That is it hardens RC’s and EO’s to stay in their satanic Churches. Frankly it makes my blood boil seeing that Gillespie said that would happen almost 400 years ago!
 
I'm quite confused. Is the argument being made that I or anyother is violating the RPW because we decorate our houses with lights and Christmas decorations? :confused:

I wouldn't see how that violates the RPW.

Or is this a matter of decorting the sanctuary? Which the original post did not mention.
 
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