Choices

Status
Not open for further replies.

cih1355

Puritan Board Junior
I heard the following from someone at work last week. I was wondering how you would respond to it. Here is what he said:

"Here is what would happen if God ordained our choices. Suppose you have to decide between selecting two options- option A and option B. Suppose that God determines that you will select option A and not option B. If God ordains that you will select option A, then selecting option A is the only possible selection that you can make. You could not select option B because you cannot choose the contrary of what God ordains that you will choose. Therefore, you do not really have choices. In order to have choices, you have to be able to select from more than one option. Since it is impossible for you to select an option other than option A, you really don't have choices."
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Originally posted by cih1355
I heard the following from someone at work last week. I was wondering how you would respond to it. Here is what he said:

"Here is what would happen if God ordained our choices. Suppose you have to decide between selecting two options- option A and option B. Suppose that God determines that you will select option A and not option B. If God ordains that you will select option A, then selecting option A is the only possible selection that you can make. You could not select option B because you cannot choose the contrary of what God ordains that you will choose. Therefore, you do not really have choices. In order to have choices, you have to be able to select from more than one option. Since it is impossible for you to select an option other than option A, you really don't have choices."

Never separate the doctrine of election from total depravity. Does man have the ability to choose God or do good? No.

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Mark 7:17-23 Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'

John 3:3, 5-6 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Romans 8:7-8 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

So if man can not choose God and do no good apart from God choosing him, then surely we must say that he does as he wants because he desires to sin and reject God from his own, natural desire. God allows the natural man to go along this course which he has freely chosen, in Adam btw, until God regenerates him from his depraved state to one that is alive in Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Heidelberg Catechism

Q6: Did God create man thus, wicked and perverse?
A6: No,[1] but God created man good and after His own image,[2] that is, in righteousness and true holiness; that he might rightly know God his Creator, heartily love Him, and live with Him in eternal blessedness, to praise and glorify Him.[3]

1. Gen. 1:31
2. Gen. 1:26-27
3. II Cor. 3:18; Col. 3:10; Eph. 4:24

Q7: From where, then, does this depraved nature of man come?
A7: From the fall and disobedience of our first parents, Adam and Eve, in Paradise,[1] whereby our nature became so corrupt that we are all conceived and born in sin.[2]

1. Gen. ch. 3; Rom. 5:12, 18-19
2. Psa. 14:2-3; 51:5

Q8: But are we so depraved that we are completely incapable of any good and prone to all evil?

A8: Yes,[1] unless we are born again by the Spirit of God.[2]

1. John 3:6; Gen. 6:5; Job 14:4; Isa. 53:6
2. John 3:5; Gen. 8:21; II Cor. 3:5; Rom. 7:18; Jer. 17:9
 

Romans922

Puritan Board Professor
Rather it might be that, God ordains choice A, not B. You have the choice of A or B. You can only choose choice A and not B because God ordained A. However, you are still responsible for A. You might ask then, why am I still responsible for choice A, for God ordains/wills what He wills, why am i still at fault? But who are you Oh mere man to answer back to God. Will that which is molded say to the molder why have you made me like this? (CONTINUE IN ROMANS 9:22ff).
 

Anton Bruckner

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by Romans922
Rather it might be that, God ordains choice A, not B. You have the choice of A or B. You can only choose choice A and not B because God ordained A. However, you are still responsible for A. You might ask then, why am I still responsible for choice A, for God ordains/wills what He wills, why am i still at fault? But who are you Oh mere man to answer back to God. Will that which is molded say to the molder why have you made me like this? (CONTINUE IN ROMANS 9:22ff).
this is the answer, but will they accept it?

I prefer an addendum to that answer, not that God's word need an addendum, but I would simply say, "What choice do you want to choose?" They will say A, then you say, "Then how is God at fault". A man can only choose what he wants, and only desires what he wants, and this is what he chooses.

[Edited on 9-20-2005 by Slippery]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top