Christian entertainment

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I find that most broadcast TV and PG or milder movies are a whole lot less ungodly or unwholesome than what I have to put up with at work on a daily basis. It comes from the management as well as the workers and the workforce is over 50% female. I am probably desensitized to people speaking and acting in certain manners. However, I know where the line is and try not to get close to it. Contract talks are the most vulgar, accusative and outright deceptive things I have to deal with.
Some people apologize when they spew f-bombs and gd's before me. I remind them that I'm not the one they have to answer to in the end.
One way to avoid seeing movies that push your button is to break out the magnifying glass and look at what they are rated for (the small almost unreadable print under the rating).
 
I sympathize as I have struggled for a long time with this issue. It seems that even good movies with redemptive elements like the Blind Side, which I saw and really liked, had some profanity in it which I was not happy about. The recent movie Amazing Grace was wonderful but I was appalled that they took the name of the Lord in vain.

I go to movieguide Movieguide | The Family Guide to Christian Movie Reviews to check out any movie that I am interested in. I talk to Christian friends to see if they have recommendations on movies or tv that they like. When after I have done all of the above the pickings seem slim. I found myself trying to decide if a movie with only a little bit of profanity, or a pagan worldview is acceptable. Where do I draw the line?

Increasingly, I am of the opinion that the only movies I can safely watch are either made by Christians and with explicitly Christian content, or old movies that were made in the days of the Hays code, which forbade nudity, gratuitous violence, or demeaning religion in any way. A few movies that I can recommend are aAMan Called Peter about Pastor Peter Marshall his wife was Catherine Marshall who wrote Christy,
The Robe,
Ben-Hur
Quo Vadis
and I am sure others could more name more.

There are other issues as well. I know of people who refuse to go Hollywood movies because they feel they are giving their money to people who hate God. How I wish they made movies like they did in the old days!
 
Watching a movie with a redemptive message and profane content is like eating a delicious looking sandwich, only to find that when you bite into it, it is filled with maggots and dung. What to do with the sandwich? Throw it out. Throw out the entertainment filled with things that God hates.
 
Watching a movie with a redemptive message and profane content is like eating a delicious looking sandwich, only to find that when you bite into it, it is filled with maggots and dung. What to do with the sandwich? Throw it out. Throw out the entertainment filled with things that God hates.

In principle I agree, but I've seen similar arguments used to condemn everything from X-rated movies to Mother Goose...and even Christian-themed fiction or music.

There are many things that are clearly sinful with no value whatsoever that we should have no part of. Conversely, there are a few things that have great value and would clearly be of great benefit to many. And finally there are a large number of things that fall somewhere in the middle. With regards to the latter we must follow our own consciences before God and not condemn our brothers for eating the "unclean" sandwich. Just as they should be careful that they don't serve up those sandwiches to their brothers and possibly make some of them sick.
 
Watching a movie with a redemptive message and profane content is like eating a delicious looking sandwich, only to find that when you bite into it, it is filled with maggots and dung. What to do with the sandwich? Throw it out. Throw out the entertainment filled with things that God hates.

In principle I agree, but I've seen similar arguments used to condemn everything from X-rated movies to Mother Goose...and even Christian-themed fiction or music.

There are many things that are clearly sinful with no value whatsoever that we should have no part of. Conversely, there are a few things that have great value and would clearly be of great benefit to many. And finally there are a large number of things that fall somewhere in the middle. With regards to the latter we must follow our own consciences before God and not condemn our brothers for eating the "unclean" sandwich. Just as they should be careful that they don't serve up those sandwiches to their brothers and possibly make some of them sick.

I can see the danger in arguing to restrict others too far and binding other's consciences. It is difficult sometimes to know how to be in the world and not of it.
 
And finally there are a large number of things that fall somewhere in the middle. With regards to the latter we must follow our own consciences before God and not condemn our brothers for eating the "unclean" sandwich. Just as they should be careful that they don't serve up those sandwiches to their brothers and possibly make some of them sick.

I think this leaves too much room in between. To say a movie that may have redemptive qualities to it (which basically never is truly redemptive- in the sense that someone goes from hating to loving God, through Christ), but which also takes the name of God in vain, is acceptable if one's conscience allows for it, seems to contradict the flow of the Bible. I might understand such reasoning if the movie actually portrayed a sinner being converted to a saint; but that's just typically not the case. And even then, who would we be to re-enact the sins God crushed His Son for?

Who are we to say things are acceptable or not, simply because they may have some descent qualities to them? God forbids cursing, course jesting, murder, fornication, blasphemy, etc.; so how can we justify ingesting these things for the sake of entertainment?

I've yet to hear a compelling argument, from Scripture or otherwise, which comes close to providing a sound basis for justifying this type of "fun".
 
Basically I say that if it doesn't feel right, don't watch it/listen to it.

I suggest that brothers and sisters try not to be so legalistic in regards to entertainment that it makes it into a works based "oh that movie is bad and God wouldn't like it!" type situation. That's just me.
I left an SBC church that condemned every chance they got regarding secular entertainment, so I am jaded I guess.
Just use your Christian mind and heart in this regard.
 
Who are we to say things are acceptable or not, simply because they may have some descent qualities to them? God forbids cursing, course jesting, murder, fornication, blasphemy, etc.; so how can we justify ingesting these things for the sake of entertainment?

The idea that we judge a movie merely on the basis of "objectionable content" might work if our only purpose in watching is entertainment. But when we watch something as art, it gets more complicated. A movie's message and purpose must be considered.

The movie "Schindler's List" had full nudity, profanity and extreme violence. It didn't have a Christian agenda. But it did have a message that cared about God's world and those he created.

The cartoon movie "Prince of Egypt" had no nudity, no swear words and no extreme violence. It was about a Bible story. But it took that story and warped it into a message that said "believe in yourself."

Now which of these movies should a Christian view as most obnoxious?
 
Basically I say that if it doesn't feel right, don't watch it/listen to it.

I suggest that brothers and sisters try not to be so legalistic in regards to entertainment that it makes it into a works based "oh that movie is bad and God wouldn't like it!" type situation. That's just me.
I left an SBC church that condemned every chance they got regarding secular entertainment, so I am jaded I guess.
Just use your Christian mind and heart in this regard.

Thanks for the exhortation. I guess I just don't see saying "that movie is bad and God wouldnt like it" as necessarily being something "works based". I might say,"that movie profanes the character of God, and God wouldnt be glorified by His saints watching it"; and my heart's motivation for saying it would be Gospel-based. I agree legalism is bad; and from what Ive heard, there are many Christians whose churches suffer from that.

No one here seems to be saying we shouldnt watch filthy movies (or tv, etc.) because to do so would jeopardize our position before God. And thats what legalism would be though. Refraining from worldly enjoyments for our sanctification, and for the glory of Christ, is about God and His Gospel, not about works-righteousness.

-----Added 12/9/2009 at 12:25:20 EST-----

Who are we to say things are acceptable or not, simply because they may have some descent qualities to them? God forbids cursing, course jesting, murder, fornication, blasphemy, etc.; so how can we justify ingesting these things for the sake of entertainment?

The idea that we judge a movie merely on the basis of "objectionable content" might work if our only purpose in watching is entertainment. But when we watch something as art, it gets more complicated. A movie's message and purpose must be considered.

The movie "Schindler's List" had full nudity, profanity and extreme violence. It didn't have a Christian agenda. But it did have a message that cared about God's world and those he created.

The cartoon movie "Prince of Egypt" had no nudity, no swear words and no extreme violence. It was about a Bible story. But it took that story and warped it into a message that said "believe in yourself."

Now which of these movies should a Christian view as most obnoxious?

I guess I dont see a need to distinguish between the two and which is more obnoxious. Watching something as art is still for the sake of enjoyment, which would fall under what I deemed entertainment; something we do for fun, contrasted with something we do in obedience to God (like work in secular settings).

Ive never seen Schindlers List. Is its purpose not to glorify sin, but to show its devastation? If it glorifies sin, then why watch it? Will we watch things that glorify sin in heaven? Again, I dont know about that film in particular though. Some movies people act like are absolute "must-sees". Movies that have to be an exception because everyone has seen them. Why though? Its sad that a Christian who abstains from things like this is often viewed as the weirdo.

Why cant we just heed the wisdom of JC Ryle, and AW Pink, and John Calvin, and CH Spurgeon, and Thomas Watson? Did they not see the direction the church was heading and exhort all who would desire to follow Christ?
 
Who are we to say things are acceptable or not, simply because they may have some descent qualities to them? God forbids cursing, course jesting, murder, fornication, blasphemy, etc.; so how can we justify ingesting these things for the sake of entertainment?

The idea that we judge a movie merely on the basis of "objectionable content" might work if our only purpose in watching is entertainment. But when we watch something as art, it gets more complicated. A movie's message and purpose must be considered.

The movie "Schindler's List" had full nudity, profanity and extreme violence. It didn't have a Christian agenda. But it did have a message that cared about God's world and those he created.

The cartoon movie "Prince of Egypt" had no nudity, no swear words and no extreme violence. It was about a Bible story. But it took that story and warped it into a message that said "believe in yourself."

Now which of these movies should a Christian view as most obnoxious?

Hmmm...interesting and thought-provoking.
 
Basically I say that if it doesn't feel right, don't watch it/listen to it.

If you are talking about a nagging conscience, then I would agree with you.

-----Added 12/9/2009 at 02:11:22 EST-----

Let's take a simple example from sitcoms.

A common story line is a husband who does something foolish and engages in a string of lies to prevent his wife from finding out. The comedy is derived from the web of trouble he gets into as he lies. When he is finally found out, there will not be a Biblical pattern of repentance and asking for forgiveness.

There is great danger here, people. I am convinced that this sort of entertainment, if attended regularly, starts to mold our own pattern of behavior. Perhaps not in the overt way, but by gradually weakening our sensitivity to the seriousness of sin.

Another important thing to mention is that this sort of story line goes back many decades. Just watch an old TV show of 'I Love Lucy'. Or even farther, go into the 'golden age' of 1940's radio comedies such as 'Amos and Andy'.

Let us at least be sensitive when we are seeing these things:

Character violates 9th commandment...character violates 9th commandment...character violates 9th commandment...character violates 9th commandment....

Believe me, you will lose your interest soon enough.

-----Added 12/9/2009 at 02:12:29 EST-----

When was the last time you saw romance on the screen between husband and wife.
 
Isn't this exactly the attitude Michael Horton warns Christians about over and over and over again? And could this be why Christian "entertainment" is so badly made? :worms: Note that movies made under the Hayes act are as bad or worse than 9-1/2 weeks: they just hide the depravity under a pseudo moral covering. :2cents:
 
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you addressing something specific in my post?
 
The movie "Schindler's List" had full nudity, profanity and extreme violence. It didn't have a Christian agenda. But it did have a message that cared about God's world and those he created.

The cartoon movie "Prince of Egypt" had no nudity, no swear words and no extreme violence. It was about a Bible story. But it took that story and warped it into a message that said "believe in yourself."

Now which of these movies should a Christian view as most obnoxious?
This was a good point Jack, but I agree with Thomas' reply:
I guess I dont see a need to distinguish between the two and which is more obnoxious. Watching something as art is still for the sake of enjoyment, which would fall under what I deemed entertainment; something we do for fun, contrasted with something we do in obedience to God (like work in secular settings).
I think we should be pretty wary and sceptical of so-called "redemptive" films/books where (as he also pointed out) the redemption is virtually certain NOT to be a true, Biblical redemption.
For good to triumph is not really enough if the good is firmly based on worldly and humanistic values, in a universe from which God is portrayed or assumed as absent.
 
Isn't this exactly the attitude Michael Horton warns Christians about over and over and over again? And could this be why Christian "entertainment" is so badly made? :worms: Note that movies made under the Hayes act are as bad or worse than 9-1/2 weeks: they just hide the depravity under a pseudo moral covering. :2cents:

Gail, I was an avid listener to the White Horse Inn for a few years when I first became Reformed. I have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Horton and his crew on this point. I have been disturbed for a while about this type of teaching that they are propagating.

There are many, many ministers now and going back throughout history that would also disagree with them. In fact, I would have to say that the vast majority of church fathers and divines would be aghast at what they are teaching especially in light of the type of entertainment we have in our day and age.

This whole idea that you can eat the meat and spit out the bones, meaning consume the good parts of a movie, book, or song and just ignore the rest is just silly and lying to oneself. The principle of defilement in the Scriptures militates against this idea. If something was defiled it was defiled, no longer clean and not fit for consumption. It was thrown out.
 
I'll have to agree with Traci on this one and on what she says about what has been being taught at WHI.

No offense intended, but I offer the following:

Does a particular movie you watch spur you on to more Christlikeness? Does it cause you to desire his presence and pleasurable gaze more than anything else? Does it add anything of significance to your understanding of his nature?

Or,

Do you watch said movie for mere enjoyment / amusement / escape / etc?

It really is that simple. We are taught in Scripture to set no worthless thing before our eyes. The vast majority of what is shown on screen today is anti-God, unscriptural in its world view, and vacuous at best.

In the past I would not have said it was such a simple thing. I have changed over the years, especially as the veneer has come off of much of what is seen in mass media. The desensitization of Christians to course speech, unwholesome talk, sexual innuendo, and un-Biblical worldview in entertainment is becoming epidemic. I can't tell you how much time pastors spend in counseling that would have not been needed had the person(s) not wasted their time on 'entertainment'. And, now I'm not at all talking about p*rn.

A media that can so powerfully induce emotion and response as the modern audio/visual media do should not be partaken of lightly, not at all. I find it ironically amusing that among the people I know those who seem to most value the Puritans and Scottish Covenanters are those that have the most liberal standards about what they consider appropriate media entertainment. I think that their textual / historical heroes might just disagree with them.

And, yes, I have had to repent of much of what I used to listen to, watch, and enjoy - some of it in the past year. Time and God's glory are far too precious to squander on mere amusement, even if it might not be 'sin'. (I think that much, if not most, of what is on the screen today probably is sin.)
 
I figure it is an issue with the weaker or stronger brother. I myself must be a weaker brother. I am completely disgusted when I try to watch even five minutes of the filth the world produces, but I know plenty of people that can in good conscience, so I wouldn't bother them about it.
 
I find it ironically amusing that among the people I know those who seem to most value the Puritans and Scottish Covenanters are those that have the most liberal standards about what they consider appropriate media entertainment.

As you are posting this on the PB, would you please qualify that statement?
Otherwise my reading of it has you pointing a finger in our cumulative direction, whereas I just haven't seen that sort of attitude portrayed here on the Board.

As the man said, " 'splain yourself." :)
 
I find it ironically amusing that among the people I know those who seem to most value the Puritans and Scottish Covenanters are those that have the most liberal standards about what they consider appropriate media entertainment.

As you are posting this on the PB, would you please qualify that statement?
Otherwise my reading of it has you pointing a finger in our cumulative direction, whereas I just haven't seen that sort of attitude portrayed here on the Board.

As the man said, " 'splain yourself." :)

I will. But, it is very late for me right now. Just so you know: I'm not picking on anyone in particular.
 
It is late. I went to bed hours ago, but here I am awake.

It just seemed that the target of your comment lies elsewhere and I was seeking clarification.
 
This isn't in response to the OP, but I thought it might be of interest to those that desire to watch movies without viewing things that would be potentially harmful. I recently found out about this...and I'm really thankful that someone finally came up with this idea! It removes things in films such as violent images, taking the Lord's name in vain, sexual innuendo's etc. ClearPlay
 
Yvonne:

I wonder how they have managed to legally provide this service, or if it is actually a problem? Wasn't it just a few years ago that some other outfit tried this and was fought tooth and nail in the courts by Hollywood trying to preserve its vaunted "artistic expression"?
 
It is late. I went to bed hours ago, but here I am awake.

It just seemed that the target of your comment lies elsewhere and I was seeking clarification.


Wayne,
I am sorry that your sleep was troubled. I know how frustrating that can be. Allow me to elaborate a bit on what I was saying. I wrote:

In the past I would not have said it was such a simple thing. I have changed over the years, especially as the veneer has come off of much of what is seen in mass media. The desensitization of Christians to course speech, unwholesome talk, sexual innuendo, and un-Biblical worldview in entertainment is becoming epidemic. I can't tell you how much time pastors spend in counseling that would have not been needed had the person(s) not wasted their time on 'entertainment'. And, now I'm not at all talking about p*rn.

A media that can so powerfully induce emotion and response as the modern audio/visual media do should not be partaken of lightly, not at all. I find it ironically amusing that among the people I know those who seem to most value the Puritans and Scottish Covenanters are those that have the most liberal standards about what they consider appropriate media entertainment. I think that their textual / historical heroes might just disagree with them.

Note that the larger context deals with the desensitization that has taken place in the minds of Christians. What was once considered profane speech, action, dress, etc. Is often commonplace. For example: the behaviour of young men and women prior to marriage. One hundred years ago one would never have seen unmarried men and women holding hands in a worship service. It would have been scandalous. Now, ho hum. In the years of my father's college days Elvis Presley's music was considered profane, both in lyrics and in his gyrations. Now, Christians for the most part would consider his music safe and clean. What has happened? Have we become more enlightened? I would posit that we have not. We have become more accustomed to the degradation of the society around us and our opinions have changed. (Opinions are not the same as standards.)

Now, to the comment about the the fans of Puritans and Covenanters: As I said previously, I am not casting stones at anyone in particular. Also, I am not commenting solely on what I have witnessed over time on the Puritan Board. I am also referring to what I have seen in the 'real' world as well. I know that what I wrote appears like a blanket statement. It was not meant to be. Rather, it was a comment based upon what I perceive as an ironic juxtaposition. To wit, the movies and music generated by the entertainment industries of the world are for the most part set in opposition to the principles set forth in Scripture. Yet, Christians will spend money, time, and energy taking in such entertainment. To what purpose? I can't answer that for all men. I find it highly ironic that Christians will defend their practice of finding something valuable in the midst of a movie that for the great part is junk from a Biblical point of view. Or, condone a movie with a powerful and perhaps needed movie that also contains scenes that are an affront to God's holiness. A couple of examples from things I have seen and since have repented of:

Schindler's List - Yes, the movie gives a powerful message. A message that needs to be spread. Yet, is the sexual nudity needed? Does the livid violence need to be shown in order to be communicated? No, it does not. Suggestion can be stronger than display. Much stronger. I could not recommend this movie any longer. It could have been much better.

24 - If you know me you know that I was a rabid fan of this show. However, I have had to repent for watching it. While it also contains some things that are insightful, presented in a fanciful fashion, it is nihilistic. It promotes a utilitarian view of mankind. In a very subtle way it introduced licentiousness, homosexuality, and situational ethics into the plot. That was needless.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, shows up in a movie, television show, studio produced music, etc. without a purpose. If you have ever been involved in the production world you know exactly what I mean. It is there because it is known, or hoped, to move the audience to a desired response.

Would our Puritan and Covenanter heros have spent time on such media if it were available to them? We can only speculate, but I doubt it. Would the Apostle Paul? Would Jesus Christ?

I am no man's law. I am only me. I condemn no one about their choice in media. I just hope we do our choosing based upon sound Scriptural precepts.
 
Thanks, Pastor. [actually I rarely have trouble sleeping]

Increasingly I find that I have no stomach for anything with violence in it. If that is a sign of growth in grace, then praise God.

On a different tack, let me propose a thesis: that the involvement of children in sexually-tinged (understatement) shows like Two and a Half Men is being wittingly done by "Hollywood/Big Media" with the intent of breaking down societal barriers against pedophilia.

I'd like to hear responses to that thesis.
 
I have almost completely lost interest in popular music and TV. It's not something I tried to accomplish, it just 'happened'!
 
Such an interesting thread.

I believe we have to use wisdom. There are many shows on the Disney Channel, rated "G", which I have on many occasions not allowed my daughter to watch. They are full of themes of sorcery and witchcraft. I, myself, do not feel convicted to watch such foolishness. I do not find it particularly entertaining or enticing, but because I have an impressionable child, I can not in good conscience allow her to be indoctrinated by the sinful agenda of the world that seeks to devour her. Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the world among teens. But what do we expect when they are practicing chants and spells from childhood?

On the other hand, I enjoy watching drama and violence. If any of you are familiar with the shows "Law and Order", "CSI", or "Maury Povich", these are my preferences when I am not watching the news. True, they may not be glorifying to God... but is God actually displeased with my enjoyment in them? Watching these shows has no effect on my behavior or beliefs, it is mere entertainment.

There are other things I will not watch or tolerate in my home, such as horror movies, particularly those with demonic characters and satanic rituals, like "Hellraiser". These type of movies make me feel like I am welcoming evil into my heart and mind, opening the doors of my home to the enemy and inviting him in. I can't even sleep after watching even small bits of such films.

I agree with many who have expressed that Christian entertainment is largely a matter of conscience. I am inclined to say that it is wrong for me to partake in anything that makes me question my faith or my God. I think it is also wrong for me to expose my sister or brother to things that offend them, or to things that I would not willingly and comfortably be a part of.
 
I have almost completely lost interest in popular music and TV. It's not something I tried to accomplish, it just 'happened'!
Your eyes become clearer if you stop watching it, and after a while you wonder what was ever so great about it! But I think if you go on making a habit of sitting in front of mainline media, that disconnect is much less likely to happen (as for popular music, I'm happy that a strong lifelong involvement in classical music has always armed me against it)
Nothing, and I mean nothing, shows up in a movie, television show, studio produced music, etc. without a purpose. If you have ever been involved in the production world you know exactly what I mean. It is there because it is known, or hoped, to move the audience to a desired response.
Lawrence is so right. Internet reviews of "Brokeback Mountain" shocked me, as so many spoke of its movingness and how they had been forced to reevaluate their moral responses - just as if it was life and truth, and not an artfully crafted piece of propaganda designed to achieve that very thing. Why is it that the young generation now is mostly open and receptive to the gay agenda, if not because the media work tirelessly to make them so?

Would our Puritan and Covenanter heros have spent time on such media if it were available to them? We can only speculate, but I doubt it. Would the Apostle Paul? Would Jesus Christ?
you put your finger on it.....we only have to ask the question to know the answer

I am no man's law. I am only me. I condemn no one about their choice in media. I just hope we do our choosing based upon sound Scriptural precepts.
Yes - but see the previous quote
 
Yvonne:

I wonder how they have managed to legally provide this service, or if it is actually a problem? Wasn't it just a few years ago that some other outfit tried this and was fought tooth and nail in the courts by Hollywood trying to preserve its vaunted "artistic expression"?

Wayne, you are probably thinking about a service a few years back that distributed edited movies without consent of the copyright holder. The Clearplay device takes standard DVDs and selectively omits scenes with objectionable content. It's really a sophisticated way of fast-forwarding through a scene. I believe this would be found to be fair use from my limited understanding of copyright law.
 
Yvonne:

I wonder how they have managed to legally provide this service, or if it is actually a problem? Wasn't it just a few years ago that some other outfit tried this and was fought tooth and nail in the courts by Hollywood trying to preserve its vaunted "artistic expression"?

Wayne, you are probably thinking about a service a few years back that distributed edited movies without consent of the copyright holder. The Clearplay device takes standard DVDs and selectively omits scenes with objectionable content. It's really a sophisticated way of fast-forwarding through a scene. I believe this would be found to be fair use from my limited understanding of copyright law.

Is it a device that you purchase and connect to your TV or DVD player?
 
ClearPlay requires the purchase of one of their DVD players ($120) and their filters for the DVDs. The filters are available by membership, at $8/mo., but I'm unclear as to whether this is just for the "filters" or whether the filters are in effect digital downloads of the entire movie.

"The ClearPlay DVD player seamlessly skips and mutes content based on 12 categories that you can set." [probably works off of the tracks built into the DVD]

Even with filtering turned on, all movies are not appropriate for all audiences. ClearPlay provides you with additional information to help you decide if a movie is appropriate for your family.

On their site you can pull up details on each of their available movies, which could be helpful for some folks. But I find I just don't have an interest in any of that stuff. Makes it a lot easier!
 
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