Christian Guy Totally Owns Mormons
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Apt title for this thread my friend!!!! That Dude OWNED those Mormons from start to finish! OWNED! He would not take the Book of Mormon, he would not shake their hands! BURN!
Very adept at handling the Scriptures but I think he was a bit too prideful at the end.
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
Aside from the last ten seconds or so (seemed a bit cocky, maybe I'm just not reading him rightly), I thought this guy was HILARIOUS (and solid). And it blew a few of my stereotypes out of the water. I would normally cross the street rather than walk past this guy (dressed like a bit of a thug, in my sheltered eyes) but quotes scripture like a preacher of old - something to aspire to. (In that sort of situation, "I'll get back to you, what's your email address??" doesn't cut it.) This guy was good.
I am not sure it was pride Rich, just a little cocky, and he did run the Moor-Moons off!
"Devil's Advocate" here, I think he felt that they were white, and he was black so they could dictate "truth" to him. The geeky More-moon in glasses was in point of fact interupting and getting rude! I have VERY little patience for cultist in any event, so more power to the "brother"!Although the Christian was technically "right," he was rude. The Mormons didn't raise their voice. They remained calm. Yet the Christian berated them by saying they were angry, etc. He even said, "We're having a discussion," but then followed it up by saying, "I don't have to stop and listen to you." And though they may have very well been frustrated, they were not acting rudely toward him.
Don't get me wrong, he did a good job of pointing out their inconsistency, but he did so with great arrogance, which is not to be confused with boldness. In my opinion, he got antagonistic a little too early. It would have been considerably different if he had had previous discussions with these guys and they were acting contempuoustly and mockingly. At such a point, there might very well ought to be a "don't cast your pearls before swine" sphere of thinking. But that wasn't the case. "Speak the truth in love."
Making statements like, "...until you figured out I knew the Scriptures," is neither helpful, nor speaking the truth in love. His arrogance particularly shown through at the end, when he acted like he had virtue in and of himself (apart from alien righteousness), then proclaiming about he and his boys "We're real." He seemed to have no real concern for these boys' souls. Instead he had more concern for "owning" them on camera and looking real smart. I don't think his intentions were to witness, but to boast.
I would agree with Joshua about the preacher's attitude.
In my experience most of these "street witnessing" encounters don't produce alot of fruit. Living in Salt Lake we see alot of well meaning Christians fly into Salt Lake determined to convert Mormons and then only to leave the following day. While leaving the native Christians to deal with the swarming bees nest.
Obviously the guy slammed them. But the Mormon boys, especially the new guy is probably thinking "wow my teachers were right, we will be persecuted for the gospel". The issue with Mormons is God is not that holy and sin is not that bad, which brought to it's logical conclusion brews idoltary. Mormons are idolaters. How can the Mormon god be holy when he's an exalted man?
When talking with Mormons it's best to define terms. We (Christians) use the same terms but have different definitions. It's easy to bulldoze through Mormons intellectually, even more so if the encounter is on the street. However, it takes patients and gentleness to deal with them daily.
For the record I find it easier to talk to Mormons than to Evangelicals about the DoG.
In my experience most of these "street witnessing" encounters don't produce alot of fruit. Living in Salt Lake we see alot of well meaning Christians fly into Salt Lake determined to convert Mormons and then only to leave the following day. While leaving the native Christians to deal with the swarming bees nest.
Obviously the guy slammed them. But the Mormon boys, especially the new guy is probably thinking "wow my teachers were right, we will be persecuted for the gospel". The issue with Mormons is God is not that holy and sin is not that bad, which brought to it's logical conclusion brews idoltary. Mormons are idolaters. How can the Mormon god be holy when he's an exalted man?
When talking with Mormons it's best to define terms. We (Christians) use the same terms but have different definitions. It's easy to bulldoze through Mormons intellectually, even more so if the encounter is on the street. However, it takes patients and gentleness to deal with them daily.
For the record I find it easier to talk to Mormons than to Evangelicals about the DoG.
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Josiah
Puritan Board Senior
I saw this on a different website the other day. My impression was that his arguments could have been better a bit better and that he was relying more on dominating the conversation rather than puting forth valid arguments. I did like the courage he displayed in speaking to them of Christ.
Josh my friend! he "trumped" the Mormons! That is all I care about! If he "strutted" a little after the fact, well so be it. My song for the Mormons,
You are right Josh!MC, my friend, he didn't show a bit of care for their souls! They didn't approach him militantly. They weren't trying to "argue him down." His demeanor could have been different. Notice, I didn't say his *content*. For all you know, or this guy could have known, these Mormons may have never had heard a clear and articulate and positive proclamation of the Gospel. Instead of having a contemptuousJosh my friend! he "trumped" the Mormons! That is all I care about! If he "strutted" a little after the fact, well so be it. My song for the Mormons,compassion of the condition of their souls. What happens if we, as Christians, only have
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
The cockiness did destroy the spirit of the message, I guess - it was just so refereshing to see someone be able to handle these guys with regards to Scripture. It's not easy - most of them know the Bible inside out.
But yes, Josh is right - again (how annoying!
)
But yes, Josh is right - again (how annoying!
)
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reformedcop
Puritan Board Freshman
Maybe enough has been said on this, but I need to chime in with Josh on this one. I watched this video about a month ago and was actually somewhat saddened by it. If the Christian would have just taken his obvious knowledge and delivered it with a more apparent concern for their souls it would have better and more glorifying to God, in my humble opinion. I actually looked at it more from the standpoint of the fruit (or lack therof) that the Christian was bearing. Yes, he was biblically correct in his ability to refute the mormon, but where was the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control in that interaction? If it weren't for the grace of God, the Christian could very easlily be on the other side of the conversation. I think it is a very good, whether witnessing to mormons, JW's or anybody for that matter, to remember what we were before God plucked us out of the mire.
Barnpreacher
Puritan Board Junior
and another I heard Tim Keller say just this afternoon in a message that Jonathan Edwards once said, "There is a concatenation of the graces of Christianity." That means real Spirit worked fruit go together. This Christian in the video showed a peace in what he was saying, but where was the love and gentleness and kindness? He showed joy in what he had accomplished, but where was the goodness and patience with these lost sinners?
I found that video disturbing.
I was bothered by how sanctimonious he was about the fact that they were getting angry.
Part of the dominance of the conversation and the frustration they were experiencing was the fact that he would talk over them, they would get upset, and then he would say that the reason they were getting upset was the truth. Not really. I'd get annoyed and upset with that guy too if he accused me of talking over him when he never really takes a breath while he's speaking. That's not really an interchange of ideas.
In fact, did the Christian really offend for the Gospel? It was really, in the end, the others not having a good argument for why someone ought to believe their lame statement that Christianity had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was not the Scriptures.
But the demons know that the Book of Mormon is a lie and they still shudder knowing the authoritative Book.
How did he really bring out their hatred of the Gospel itself? It was more a "I know this stuff better than you session" but he didn't even bother to explain to them how the Scriptures point to Christ and His propitiation for Sin.
I wonder, in fact, what this guy really believes about the Gospel? For all we know he's a rank semi-Pelagian who only differs in breed from the Mormons rather than species. His conduct, as has been noted, did not express the love that God has for His enemies that ought to be evinced by those who have been born again. Our attitude toward the world ought to be one of gentleness and reverance not a "...just proof again that no white boy Mormon can beat me...."
He ought to be careful how much he boast that he can stand.
The title of the video says it all. We don't own anyone. The Gospel is not a power play.
Part of the dominance of the conversation and the frustration they were experiencing was the fact that he would talk over them, they would get upset, and then he would say that the reason they were getting upset was the truth. Not really. I'd get annoyed and upset with that guy too if he accused me of talking over him when he never really takes a breath while he's speaking. That's not really an interchange of ideas.
In fact, did the Christian really offend for the Gospel? It was really, in the end, the others not having a good argument for why someone ought to believe their lame statement that Christianity had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was not the Scriptures.
But the demons know that the Book of Mormon is a lie and they still shudder knowing the authoritative Book.
How did he really bring out their hatred of the Gospel itself? It was more a "I know this stuff better than you session" but he didn't even bother to explain to them how the Scriptures point to Christ and His propitiation for Sin.
I wonder, in fact, what this guy really believes about the Gospel? For all we know he's a rank semi-Pelagian who only differs in breed from the Mormons rather than species. His conduct, as has been noted, did not express the love that God has for His enemies that ought to be evinced by those who have been born again. Our attitude toward the world ought to be one of gentleness and reverance not a "...just proof again that no white boy Mormon can beat me...."
He ought to be careful how much he boast that he can stand.
The title of the video says it all. We don't own anyone. The Gospel is not a power play.
Barnpreacher
Puritan Board Junior
Wonder if Calvin and Luther and the Apostle Paul or even the Lord Jesus Christ for that matter would have posted their "gospel ownings" on YouTube?
BobVigneault
Bawberator
What I don't understand in all these types of video clips is where did the camera come from. "Hey it's Saturday night, let's go stand on the corner... and bring your video camera and we'll just have it recording in case something interesting happens. Oh look, here comes some guys on bike's, maybe they won't notice that we are filming everything we do and say." I don't get it. 
Gloria
Puritan Board Sophomore
Okay. This guy is NOT a Christian. This is "Apostle and Chief High Priest" Tazadaqyah. He's a Black Hebrew/Hebrew Israelite and he is deceived (obviously). He believes he is the "comforter" Christ spoke of...here is his website. www.thecomforter.info - Home Page
Seb
Puritan Board Junior
He seemed more intent on dominating them by attitude and bullying them in the conversation, than actually teaching or showing them their fallacies.
Looked more like a "verbal street fight", for the camera and his friends, than a compelling argument and presentation.
The bottom line to me is; What did he accomplish?
Looked more like a "verbal street fight", for the camera and his friends, than a compelling argument and presentation.
The bottom line to me is; What did he accomplish?
BobVigneault
Bawberator
They WERE pushing the book of mormon. You guys who think we always have to be so delicate and gentle in the face of those pushing false religion, how would you have responded to Satan when he said, "Has God really said?"
I'm all for being winsome but what is the point where you take off the mink glove and say something like "“May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” Acts 8:20ff
There's got to be a point where we stop being the care bears. Adam's sin, before eating the fruit, was his passivity. Should he have watched his wife speak with the serpent, should he have had a discussion about the epistemological differences between him and the servant, or should he have driven a stake through the serpents head?
I'm all for being winsome but what is the point where you take off the mink glove and say something like "“May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” Acts 8:20ff
There's got to be a point where we stop being the care bears. Adam's sin, before eating the fruit, was his passivity. Should he have watched his wife speak with the serpent, should he have had a discussion about the epistemological differences between him and the servant, or should he have driven a stake through the serpents head?
BobVigneault
Bawberator
Thanks Gloria. That certainly puts it in a different perspective, doesn't it?
www.thecomforter.info - Home Page
Gloria
Puritan Board Sophomore
Thanks Gloria. That certainly puts it in a different perspective, doesn't it?
www.thecomforter.info - Home Page
Yes...it does. LOL. I'd say so with CERTAINTY. Did you see his website??? Weirdness.
Barnpreacher
Puritan Board Junior
The Word of God drives the stake in Bob, not our attitudes. Adam should have responded to the serpent with the Word of God. That was his authority. When you have the Word of God as your authority you aren't a care bear. Neither do you have to go around bumping and thumping your chest to prove this or that either. If one has to do that then I would dare say they are looking to their own self as their authority as opposed to the Word of God. That man in the video was arrogant, boastful, and obnoxious. And I thought that before Gloria posted what she did. That only confirmed it.
Jesus was stern, he was never obnoxious and arrogant.
Seb
Puritan Board Junior
BobVigneault
Bawberator
Thank you Steve, I prefer it.
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
Owned.
I wish he would have expounded more on why they are wrong though.
I wish he would have expounded more on why they are wrong though.
Glad you pointed out that he was not Christian. The Cat knew his Scripture! Sad!
www.thecomforter.info - Home Page
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
Wow, that's quite a website. Gloria, thanks for that. Gotta go with Josh again on this - the man has issues.
But have you heard the latest?
Benny Hinn, watch your back! There's a new kid in town!
While I do agree that it is the word of God that does the stake-driving, insipid Christianity is as much a danger as the aggressive Bible-thumping (I'm thinking the lukewarm, spit out-able church here). We spend a lot of time with Mormons and there comes a point (and quickly) where you have to say that you reject the Mormon 'scriptures' and additional revelations of their 'prophets'. It is NOT the word of God and must be labeled as such in a clear and definite way. Otherwise, they quickly take that as a sign that 'we're all Christian' and it's time for 17 rousing choruses of Kum-ba-yah (after which time they tell you that there have been additional revelations since the Bible was written and they'd like to tell you all about it would you like to come over for dinner sometime soon?)
But have you heard the latest?
Benny Hinn, watch your back! There's a new kid in town!
While I do agree that it is the word of God that does the stake-driving, insipid Christianity is as much a danger as the aggressive Bible-thumping (I'm thinking the lukewarm, spit out-able church here). We spend a lot of time with Mormons and there comes a point (and quickly) where you have to say that you reject the Mormon 'scriptures' and additional revelations of their 'prophets'. It is NOT the word of God and must be labeled as such in a clear and definite way. Otherwise, they quickly take that as a sign that 'we're all Christian' and it's time for 17 rousing choruses of Kum-ba-yah (after which time they tell you that there have been additional revelations since the Bible was written and they'd like to tell you all about it would you like to come over for dinner sometime soon?)
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
Gloria beat me to it.
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