Christian Reformed Church

Discussion in 'Church Order' started by Greg, Oct 16, 2008.

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  1. Greg

    Greg Puritan Board Sophomore

    I've never heard of this particular denomination before. Anyone familiar with them?

    CRCNA
     
  2. Kevin

    Kevin Puritan Board Doctor

    Dutch.

    Reformed.

    Canadian.

    The only true church.

    Any questions?
     
  3. calgal

    calgal Puritan Board Graduate

    Ask the URC. :worms:
     
  4. Guido's Brother

    Guido's Brother Puritan Board Junior


    Right on number one for sure. Most people in the CRCNA are of Dutch extraction.

    The CRCNA is Reformed insofar as it traces its roots back to the continental Reformation and they still claim allegiance to the Three Forms of Unity. You may find individual CRCs that are still confessionally Reformed and you'll find lots of solid Reformed people still in the CRC. They hold on for the usual reasons. But since the CRCNA moved towards women's ordination in the 1990s, they've lost a lot of people. Hence the comment above about the URCNA.

    While there are a lot of Canadian CRCs, I think most of the CRC is in the US.

    As to the last one, well....
     
  5. Grymir

    Grymir Puritan Board Graduate

    "Dutch", "Christian", "Reformed" I never heard of them...

    ...until my now wife said those words on one of our first "date". I knew then that things had taken a serious turn with her!!!
     
  6. JohnV

    JohnV Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    CRC - Formerly the "sleeping giant" church. So named by Billy Graham because the people of that church stuck to themselves quite a lot.

    My former church. It is still my hope that the CRC will go back to what it was before. But the question would be, 'What was it before?' People from different areas would give different answers to that question. At one time, though, there were a lot of good things about that denomination.
     
  7. Seb

    Seb Puritan Board Junior

    Amen brother. There's still quite a few of us in the CRCNA that are still trying to fight the good fight and bring her back on course. Though a lot of times it seems we are teetering on a point of no return.

    If you mean that's the attitude of the denomination, then you're very mistaken. If anything, they are sometimes guilty of being way too ecumenical with Rome and other Protestant denominations that are in a more liberal state than she is.
     
  8. Guido's Brother

    Guido's Brother Puritan Board Junior

    I noticed a news items just yesterday about another CRC going URCNA, this one in Visalia, CA.
     
  9. Seb

    Seb Puritan Board Junior

    It seems like more and more of the conservative congregations are throwing in the towel. I can't say that I blame them, but it's sad. Every time a conservative congregation leaves the power shifts more to the liberal factions in the CRCNA.

    It's really hard to watch this shift continue. With every Synod those who have an agenda contrary to Christ's, are more empowered.
     
  10. greenbaggins

    greenbaggins Administrator Staff Member

    The only classis that does not seat women delegates is my own classis, Minnkota. They are still fighting, but are gradually losing their will to fight, I think. When the liberals are in charge, and they aren't listening to the conservatives AT ALL, then it gets difficult to want to stay in.
     
  11. ericfromcowtown

    ericfromcowtown Puritan Board Sophomore

    Would it be fair to compare the CRC to the PCUSA, in that it has become very liberal over the years but that there are still many confessional reformed Christians holding on within its congregations?
     
  12. Guido's Brother

    Guido's Brother Puritan Board Junior

    I can understand the reasons why people stay. But given the bureaucratic polity in the CRCNA, it seems to be a vain hope to think that local congregations can effect meaningful change in the church as a whole. I mean, if you look at the history, it's all about Grand Rapids: CRC Headquarters, Calvin College and Calvin Seminary. Whoever controls those, steers the course of the CRC. The battle was already lost in the 1960s and 1970s.
     
  13. Guido's Brother

    Guido's Brother Puritan Board Junior

    It's great that there's still one classis holding out, along with any number of local churches. But it must be difficult to hold your position on women's ordination in the local church and at classis, only to go to synod and have not only women delegates seated around you, but also on the executive.
     
  14. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    Yes, that church {Trinity} is pastored by my brother in law, Rev. Adrian Dieleman. A cause for rejoicing on the one hand that they are now among like minded confessional bretheren. And yet once again. a cause for sorrow that the CRC refused to heed this church's faithful witness these past years.
     
  15. greenbaggins

    greenbaggins Administrator Staff Member

    Yep. That's our entire problem. Now, we have to go to a synod that we believe is illegitimately constituted. I am pushing rather strongly for non-involvement, since signing a letter of protest (that abysmal dog-bone that the liberals threw to the poor, defeated conservatives) is simply not sufficient. Eventually, we will give up even signing, since signing a protest does nothing, and is not even recorded anywhere important.
     
  16. TimV

    TimV Puritanboard Botanist

    Everyone going to a liberal PCA church should memorise this paragraph.
     
  17. Heldveld

    Heldveld Puritan Board Freshman

    :eek: Being from West Michigan that is just a totally foreign concept.

    I grew up CRC went to the RCA (you've probably never heard of them either) and now am in the URCNA. As mentioned there are some good and some bad churches in the denomination. I'm encouraged by those who wish to see changes and pray for the efforts.

    There are some 'famous' CRC people L. Berkhof and C. VanTil (raised in and pastored a CRC church).
     
  18. Seb

    Seb Puritan Board Junior

    I don't think that would be a fair comparison at this time. The CRC may degrade to that point but they are not there yet.

    Currently in the CRCNA...

    ...Homosexuality is still a sin [-]and they that practice it are not allowed in Church office.[/-] (edit: I looked at the CRCNA website and I'm not so sure this is true anymore :eek:)

    ...Abortion is still murder.

    ...and the Bible is still infallible and the final authority in all matters (unfortunately some take liberties in how they understand it and inerrancy has become a point of contention )
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  19. Scott1

    Scott1 Puritan Board Doctor

    My impression of the CRC, is that the denomination is in a relatively better (ie more biblical) condition right now.

    Based on looking at their literature, and knowing someone who recently went through Calvin College is that this has been a faithful Reformed Church in the not too distant past. Their web site gives the impression of a truly conflicted denomination that has some sound Reformed Theology points mixed in with (contradictory) humanism and modernism. What it holds to is confused as it is in a state of falling away, but still identifies some key biblical, reformed doctrine from the (not-too-distant) past.

    The denomination still has many dear Christians in it. There are even some particular churches (and based on Reverend Keister's accounts here, some presbtery's (classis') that hold to Reformed Theology. In that, I don't think they are quite analogous to the PCUSA because that denomination still has many Christians there, but they are "broadly evangelical" by now and have lost their Reformed Theology distinctives.

    The CRC still has some Reformed Theology left, and people are genuining contending for that-which is quite an encouragement to those in it now or who are praying for denominational renewal.
     
  20. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    We are currently in the midst of this same issue. I am not sure that I can retain my membership in the CRC with a clear conscience - there are simply too many holes in the bucket to hold any water as a denomination. I was actually talking to an elder a couple of weeks ago who told me that our particular church doesn't identify with the CRC much any more. (And that's classis Hamilton). We've got women deacons (and even some elders in the more liberal congregations, I believe). With Calvin seminary ordaining women, who can honestly say that there is much of a future? Synod is not only accepting female delegates, but voting them into executive positions: Thea Leunk, Vice President?!?!?!?! With the leadership nearly as circus-like as the Episcopals, I am cringing to thing who will take Jerry Van Dyk's place when he's done.
     
  21. Calvinist Cowboy

    Calvinist Cowboy Puritan Board Junior

    I wouldn't say the battle is over yet. Just look at Southern Baptist Seminary, which was once a stronghold of liberalism. Yet, God has providentially raised up godly men, like Al Mohler, to change the course of the seminary. There does come a point when further fighting is useless and it is better to leave a denomination, but don't give up fighting until that line is crossed!
     
  22. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    It's not the issue itself (though I know I seem to keep harping on it), but how the changes were made and the attitude/reasons to changing what was the status quo.

    Another big issue is that while I and my wife may be fine with doctrinally sifting what comes from the pulpit/classis/synod, it is our children that are going to have to deal with the doctrinal laxness - I don't see that they are mature enough to make those sorts of differentiations right now. And the constant 'little talks' from Mom and Dad on why this, that, and the other are not kosher is getting old really fast.
     
  23. Seb

    Seb Puritan Board Junior

    I've a feeling the Paedocommunion decision, that they are going to make in the next 4-5 years, is finally going push many over the edge.

    I know for us that's going to be a huge problem, if they go the way that I fear they will.
     
  24. Backwoods Presbyterian

    Backwoods Presbyterian Puritan Board Doctor

    Well we do have an ARP in Bradenton...
     
  25. Seb

    Seb Puritan Board Junior

    Yeah I know, and it's at the top of my list. ;)

    They're not all Pittsburgh fans are they? :p
     
  26. Backwoods Presbyterian

    Backwoods Presbyterian Puritan Board Doctor

    :lol: Good question.
     
  27. N. Eshelman

    N. Eshelman Puritan Board Senior

    I am pretty sure that they allow for paedo-communion now. One of the latest seminary magazines dedicated a bit to this issue and the position is that all baptized members are entitled to the elements.

    On another note: This year they have a female homiletics prof as well. (And she was the pastor of the famous Eastern Ave CRC that kicked Herman Hoeksema out in the 1920s.)
     
  28. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    "famous" or "infamous"?

    I had no idea that church was at this sort of thing already in the 1920's...
     
  29. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    I think you mean Jerry Dykstra, Executive Director of the CRC. Perhaps you made a freudian slip thinking about the comedian Jerry Van Dyke :wink: Understandable mistake.
     
  30. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    Yes! Jerry Dykstra - sorry!
     
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