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What is your view of how Christmas ought to be celebrated?
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My view is hard to fit in the poll. I'm becoming increasingly more hard line in recent years. I used to hold as long as you keep it out of the church with exception of properly couched nativity sermons, then home holiday stuff otherwise is okay. But now I'm not sure but that the latter isn't another trojan house for retaining the religious aspects, especially since it was this aspect, the holiday party aspect, which was the first means to bring recognition of the day back into American Presbyterianism. So while it is still a liberty issue, far better if starting out one's family to set very minimal traditions in this regard, if I'm being asked, and regardless keep it far away from church practice. On use in the church, I've also concluded even minimalist use like an advent sermon is also to much credence to give the season. Even as the RPW has become more known and talked about, clearly unwarranted stuff like advent ceremonies has become more prevalent and defended, not less in supposed Presbyterian churches holding to that principle. So while a properly predicated or couched nativity sermon is indifferent, I'm not convinced its annual regular use doesn't permanently hold the door open for decline, or undercuts reform from the drag the observance has toward biblical worship. Things are simply not getting better but worse, at least judging from the many year's discussion on this board.
Can the poll be edited to include something about it being a matter of Christian liberty?
"Ought" is a strong word since it presupposes a law. Christmas observance is not commanded. If someone commemorates it and uses it as an occasion to preach topical sermons or read the first couple chapters of Luke, it is not a matter of a commandment but a help to those within a cultural context. The subject matter within this context is not a matter of commandment but rather what is helpful within that context.
Yes, some to make an idol of the day. Instead of worshipping this UNKNOWN GOD (Acts 17), use the occasion to preach Christ-- or don't use it if you think the subject matter irrelevant or unhelpful to your (sub)culture.
"Ought to" or "ought not" do not appropriately account for Christian liberty relating to this subject.
My view is hard to fit in the poll. I'm becoming increasingly more hard line in recent years. I used to hold as long as you keep it out of the church with exception of properly couched nativity sermons, then home holiday stuff otherwise is okay. But now I'm not sure but that the latter isn't another trojan house for retaining the religious aspects, especially since it was this aspect, the holiday party aspect, which was the first means to bring recognition of the day back into American Presbyterianism. So while it is still a liberty issue, far better if starting out one's family to set very minimal traditions in this regard, if I'm being asked, and regardless keep it far away from church practice. On use in the church, I've also concluded even minimalist use like an advent sermon is also to much credence to give the season. Even as the RPW has become more known and talked about, clearly unwarranted stuff like advent ceremonies has become more prevalent and defended, not less in supposed Presbyterian churches holding to that principle. So while a properly predicated or couched nativity sermon is indifferent, I'm not convinced its annual regular use doesn't permanently hold the door open for decline, or undercuts reform from the drag the observance has toward biblical worship. Things are simply not getting better but worse, at least judging from the many year's discussion on this board.
Interesting. If I may ask, what does the season look like in your home?
Can you be explicit what you want added? A moderator can do that.Can the poll be edited to include something about it being a matter of Christian liberty?
The observance of Christmas, either in the Church or home, is an area of Christian liberty.Can you be explicit what you want added? A moderator can do that.
"Christ-mass" is not commanded and is therefore forbidden. That is consistent with the RPW. You'll find some who say that it is the most wonderful time of the year, that it is helpful for reflecting on the incarnation. That is not consistent with the RPW. Helpful (in human eyes) is a long way from commanded by God.
So much for public worship. Let me say briefly how the event is privately observed in my family.
We avoid any special religious association with the day. We do family worship in the morning and evening, as usual, singing psalms and continuing reading in Scripture from where we had left off. In past few years, we have made a point of going to restaurants or being otherwise busy on the 25th, since I have the day off. At the moment, I do not object to gift-giving as a cultural practice. The same goes for trees. I also avoid the use of the name "Christmas" where possible.
Are there seasonal songs that you actually enjoy?!? Whenever I go shopping these days I come home with a wicked headache. (Thanks, Mariah Carey.)so it isn't that far of a stretch to enjoy the seasonal tunes
Voted other.
It ought not to be made religious anywhere (home or church). The religious observance should be destroyed given the history.
I do not take issue with secular celebration in private homes ( ex. gift giving, watch the grinch, gather for food....etc.). We do some of this in our home. This is our household compromise. No form of celebration at church. Even If Celebrating at home in a secular manner, no lying to kids (The Santa Idol).
No form of celebration should be required as in “ought” at all. Families who choose to drop Christmas in all forms should be encouraged and not bemoaned.
The observance of Christmas, either in the Church or home, is an area of Christian liberty.
I think you meant to say imposing?the elders...opposing their views on the members?
Yes, thanks!I think you meant to say imposing?
Well, that's not what I expect. I don't see an option to edit the poll. Too much time or votes cast may have shut out that option. Sorry abou that.The observance of Christmas, either in the Church or home, is an area of Christian liberty.
No problem.Well, that's not what I expect. I don't see an option to edit the poll. Too much time or votes cast may have shut out that option. Sorry abou that.
My view is hard to fit in the poll. I'm becoming increasingly more hard line in recent years. I used to hold as long as you keep it out of the church with exception of properly couched nativity sermons, then home holiday stuff otherwise is okay. But now I'm not sure but that the latter isn't another trojan house for retaining the religious aspects, especially since it was this aspect, the holiday party aspect, which was the first means to bring recognition of the day back into American Presbyterianism. So while it is still a liberty issue, far better if starting out one's family to set very minimal traditions in this regard, if I'm being asked, and regardless keep it far away from church practice. On use in the church, I've also concluded even minimalist use like an advent sermon is also to much credence to give the season. Even as the RPW has become more known and talked about, clearly unwarranted stuff like advent ceremonies has become more prevalent and defended, not less in supposed Presbyterian churches holding to that principle. So while a properly predicated or couched nativity sermon is indifferent, I'm not convinced its annual regular use doesn't permanently hold the door open for decline, or undercuts reform from the drag the observance has toward biblical worship. Things are simply not getting better but worse, at least judging from the many year's discussion on this board.
I so agree with you about the liturgical calendar but what bothers me more than Christmas is the observance of Lent with the ashes and making of special vows etc. But at least my pastor stopped doing the advent candle lighting ceremony years ago. No one noticed except me but I was glad to see it go.I have no idea what comes first, the calendar or the attenuation of knowledge.
The surprise is misplaced. A peep into Reformed history, worship wars, and the lack of a command should lead you to be surprised of the modern confessional church endorsement.I'm kind of surprised at the number of Reformed brothers and sisters (generally speaking and not limited to PB) who are fine with remembering the secular reasons for various seasons and even partake in them, but are strongly against acknowledging the religious aspects be it at home or in the church.