Close Down the Puritanboard?

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis

Originally posted by houseparent
I do not want to sound like I am asking for a position here guys, but if you ever want a mod who isn't afraid to "sic" someone let me know. I am not as knowledgable as many of you are, but if there is a poster who you deem a trouble maker and no one wants to be "mean" just let me know and I'll do it without hesitation.

Adam, now that is my personality style. Born and raised 10 miles west of Manhattan. New Yorker at heart.

What's driving me nuts Bill is the fact that a few whiners (sorry if that's harsh) seem to be causing a ton of greif and some, or even a most of it is going on behind the scenes.

These people even refuse to bring it into the light when a thread like this would enable them to do so. Here is there chance to speak their peace but they hide behind their monitors whimpering for this place to be closed in order to make them feel better about their precious feelings being hurt in a baptism (or insert your topic here) debate. It's really rather sickening to me.

There are views that I am not even decided on, but one thing I loved about this place was the ability to get many different views that weren't heretical. I could then turn to scripture, prayer, and my local church home to help me take a stand.

The fact that a few over emotional people want to rob the rest of us from what we get from the PB makes me angry,and as Dr. Banner would say, "trust me, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

 

[ReformedWretch]

If a person is disgruntled with your church do you just ask them to leave? Or are you instead seeking to have the Sprit produce the fruit of LONGSUFFERING in your life as you work with them to help them bear their burdens

Pastor Way;

You know how I respect you. But my isue with that kind of thinking is so deep that I am not certain that I can even begin to lay it out here.

It depends why the disgruntled person feels the way that they do. If they are upset that we have communion every week then I would not seek to comfort them by changing it. If they were unhappy with real wine being used with grape juice as well, again I believe they should seek to get over it.

Would I be rude to them? I would hope not. But, I would not seek to coddle them. If they stood against something our church believed to be the Gospel truth I would seek to explain our position as best as possible, invite them to remain but quietly disagree with the practice, but they would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that causing discension would not be tolerated.

If they were going around causing greif for members who were being fed and blessed by our church I would not only ask them to leave, I would demand it.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Moderate:

Original referenced post deleted. No longer necessary or germane.

[Edited on 10/24/2005 by fredtgreco]

 

[Contra_Mundum]

{Moderate}
OK. Let me moderate just a sec, and politely insist that some of the highly charged rhetoric be toned down. I don't think that the votes for doing away with the board are winning the day or persuading the webmaster right now. Its simply belligerent to berate someone for voting his opinion. If you don't agree with it, ... you don't agree with it! The reasons (if they were explained) might even be something you were forced to agree with, in spite of yourself! Wow. In any case, snap judgments could be part of why whomever they are don't feel the board is worthwhile.

So, no more name calling.

Love you all...

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

{MODERATED}

Deleted post. Unneedful. Keep on track. Just a simple vote and why.

 

[Presbyrino]

My vote is "NO", don't shut down and keep the board as is.

"Maybe" it would probably be helpful to refer new folks to archived threads on the hot topics : baptism, theonomy, EP, etc.

For the admins, as hard as you try you won't be able to prevent folks from getting their feelings hurt. Perhaps, folks should be more careful as they enter into debates here on the PB. If folks are going to make statements, then they should be prepared, in some instances, to have them challenged. If this bothers you, then don't enter into hot-topic debates. As much as the admins try to monitor the board, folks should also take up the responsibility to monitor themselves as well.

My

 

[Me Died Blue]

I would second many of the thoughts and suggestions that have been given thus far, especially by Steve. Any beneficial group such as the Puritan Board, and even every church as well, is bound from its inception to go through difficult times. Right now is indeed one of those times at the board in many ways. But in one sense it is precisely because of that state that I believe it is important to press on, in order to get through it in a way that glorifies God and benefits people here both through the struggling process and in looking back later.

My pastor preached a sermon last Lord's Day from Joshua 7 about the result of Achan's sin at Ai, and the temporary defeat and pain it caused the whole people. But they persevered in the defeat, and God eventually brought them to victory. Though the Church is what is directly in reference in the passage, I believe it has something to teach every believer about any group, and what can temporarily happen to the whole as a result of the sin and misplaced intents and actions of a small amount. As has been pointed out, the spirit that can often take over some discussions here has currently brought that spirit to much of the board as a whole, but as has also been pointed out, that means we need to repent, reform and persevere, rather than give up.

Personally, the people I have met on this board and the advice I have received as a result have been invaluable to me in my journey to and in the Reformed faith. In fact, quite contrary to becoming a distraction from the local church's central importance to my spiritual life, it was because of connections I made on this board that I discovered any good Reformed churches at all. John Schultz connected me with my home church, and Fred Greco got me in-touch with the church I now attend whenever I go back from Cincinnati from time to time. I know I would not have the church foundation I currently have had it not been for my connections here, as well as my initial learning of the nature and importance of the Church.

And as has been pointed out in this thread, there will never stop being new people in the same boat many of us were in two years ago, not knowing of any Reformed churches to join or even what is important to look for in doing so. So let us continually persevere and indeed talk about areas that currently need repentance and reforming.

 

[ReformedWretch]

PW, this section of your post makes it sound as if you voted to close.

those of you who think that anyone who voted "Close it" should just leave really need an attitude check. Instead of being defensive you should be wondering what has been done to make people want the board to close! If a person is disgruntled with your church do you just ask them to leave? Or are you instead seeking to have the Sprit produce the fruit of LONGSUFFERING in your life as you work with them to help them bear their burdens.....like I said.....very telling.

If not then I am sorry but it reads that way.

Now as for this;

There is a picture of some of the problem of late. When an opinion is offered, even if in a vote, if it is unacceptable to others or not fully justified to those who disagree then people immediately begin to condemn. This is not edifying nor is it a proper way to try to relate to those with whom you disagree.

I run into this in childcare all the time. People insist that to discipline in love means one must always be sweet and mushy. That somehow the person causing greif is to be dealt with in such a way that proves to him or her that they are cared about.

You know what?

I agree with that 99% of the time. But there comes a time when we have to be wise enough to call a spade a spade and remove a person before they can damage others. The goal can still be restoration, but restoration when the offending member repents of his trouble making and agrees to return in humility and submission.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

And as has been pointed out in this thread, there will never stop being new people in the same boat many of us were in two years ago, not knowing of any Reformed churches to join or even what is important to look for in doing so. So let us continually persevere and indeed talk about areas that currently need repentance and reforming.

Sound and wise.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Originally posted by houseparent
PW, this section of your post makes it sound as if you voted to close.

those of you who think that anyone who voted "Close it" should just leave really need an attitude check. Instead of being defensive you should be wondering what has been done to make people want the board to close! If a person is disgruntled with your church do you just ask them to leave? Or are you instead seeking to have the Sprit produce the fruit of LONGSUFFERING in your life as you work with them to help them bear their burdens.....like I said.....very telling.

If not then I am sorry but it reads that way.

Now as for this;

There is a picture of some of the problem of late. When an opinion is offered, even if in a vote, if it is unacceptable to others or not fully justified to those who disagree then people immediately begin to condemn. This is not edifying nor is it a proper way to try to relate to those with whom you disagree.

I run into this in childcare all the time. People insist that to discipline in love means one must always be sweet and mushy. That somehow the person causing greif is to be dealt with in such a way that proves to him or her that they are cared about.

You know what?

I agree with that 99% of the time. But there comes a time when we have to be wise enough to call a spade a spade and remove a person before they can damage others. The goal can still be restoration, but restoration when the offending member repents of his trouble making and agrees to return in humility and submission.

{MODERATE}

Adam, I very much appreciate your input, but keep on track. Let's allow for "yes" and "no" and leave it there. Just a simple post.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by webmaster

And as has been pointed out in this thread, there will never stop being new people in the same boat many of us were in two years ago, not knowing of any Reformed churches to join or even what is important to look for in doing so. So let us continually persevere and indeed talk about areas that currently need repentance and reforming.

Sound and wise.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by webmaster

Originally posted by houseparent
PW, this section of your post makes it sound as if you voted to close.

those of you who think that anyone who voted "Close it" should just leave really need an attitude check. Instead of being defensive you should be wondering what has been done to make people want the board to close! If a person is disgruntled with your church do you just ask them to leave? Or are you instead seeking to have the Sprit produce the fruit of LONGSUFFERING in your life as you work with them to help them bear their burdens.....like I said.....very telling.

If not then I am sorry but it reads that way.

Now as for this;

There is a picture of some of the problem of late. When an opinion is offered, even if in a vote, if it is unacceptable to others or not fully justified to those who disagree then people immediately begin to condemn. This is not edifying nor is it a proper way to try to relate to those with whom you disagree.

I run into this in childcare all the time. People insist that to discipline in love means one must always be sweet and mushy. That somehow the person causing greif is to be dealt with in such a way that proves to him or her that they are cared about.

You know what?

I agree with that 99% of the time. But there comes a time when we have to be wise enough to call a spade a spade and remove a person before they can damage others. The goal can still be restoration, but restoration when the offending member repents of his trouble making and agrees to return in humility and submission.

{MODERATE}

Adam, I very much appreciate your input, but keep on track. Let's allow for "yes" and "no" and leave it there. Just a simple post.

Ok, ok...calming down.

 

[Average Joey]

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by webmaster

Originally posted by houseparent
PW, this section of your post makes it sound as if you voted to close.

those of you who think that anyone who voted "Close it" should just leave really need an attitude check. Instead of being defensive you should be wondering what has been done to make people want the board to close! If a person is disgruntled with your church do you just ask them to leave? Or are you instead seeking to have the Sprit produce the fruit of LONGSUFFERING in your life as you work with them to help them bear their burdens.....like I said.....very telling.

If not then I am sorry but it reads that way.

Now as for this;

There is a picture of some of the problem of late. When an opinion is offered, even if in a vote, if it is unacceptable to others or not fully justified to those who disagree then people immediately begin to condemn. This is not edifying nor is it a proper way to try to relate to those with whom you disagree.

I run into this in childcare all the time. People insist that to discipline in love means one must always be sweet and mushy. That somehow the person causing greif is to be dealt with in such a way that proves to him or her that they are cared about.

You know what?

I agree with that 99% of the time. But there comes a time when we have to be wise enough to call a spade a spade and remove a person before they can damage others. The goal can still be restoration, but restoration when the offending member repents of his trouble making and agrees to return in humility and submission.

{MODERATE}

Adam, I very much appreciate your input, but keep on track. Let's allow for "yes" and "no" and leave it there. Just a simple post.

Ok, ok...calming down.

Two words "Rapture Ready".

Sorry couldn`t resist.:bigsmile:

 

[ReformedWretch]

Oh man, that was completely loving, calm, and subdued compared to what those people over there drove me to.

 

[Average Joey]

Originally posted by houseparent
Oh man, that was completely loving, calm, and subdued compared to what those people over there drove me to.

I know,just teasing to bring a laugh or two out of this thread.

 

[JohnV]

My personal opinion is that this Board is just around the corner from coming into it own. I can appreciate some of the sentiments; I can even appreciate that some think its time to prune the Board by making more stringent discussion rules in addition to the doctrinal rules. Maybe I'm one of the culprits: I have been seriously working on the ideas of certain threads, and I have felt perhaps too free to engage my thoughts. Though I ought to be free about differing opinion-wise, yet some things are sacrosanct to some people, things I don't mind contradicting. So some could feel like they are being attacked underhandedly. Its something we could all keep in mind in what we say on this Board. We should not make our particular perspective a mark of orthodoxy for others.

So maybe we need referees too. I would think that the moderators are doing a good job of things, and that we don't need referees. What we need more is a plain sense of what ought to be on the block and what ought not to be. Not thicker skins, but less thick heads on secondary matters. I am applying this to myself as I think through this.

What I see going on is that some of our ivory palaces are tumbling because of all the interaction that we've had. That was our goal. If we're achieving that, what is the reason to close it down? If some of the things that need tearing down are being torn down, then it has been to good purpose. But if we came here to tear down everyone else's ivory palace and leave our own intact, then our intention was wrong from the start. Putting things out for discussion can also include correction. Are we afraid of that instead of joyful about it? Is that the reason behind some of the want of Christian behavoiur?

I came on this Board at a time when I was utterly despondent, being excluded from the life of the church for quite some time. This Board did not replace that need, but it did help me to find my footing.

I think that we still have a great role to play. With all that's happening in our churches, and the fact that here we can hash things out in a manner that is unique, and which allows for greater depth of study and carefully made arguments, I think that we are just beginning to find our place in the world as a discussion Board.

 

[ReformedWretch]

I want to issue an apaology to Pastor Way for getting overly worked up in this thread. I understand his issues and concerns. I hope he continues to post here and even debate from time to time. I honestly do. I learned much from his participation.

 

[pastorway]

I really should not have said anything in this thread earlier and apologize for even opening my mouth. I have deleted my posts accordingly.

I do have one question, hopefully on topic, for Matt and Scott.

I do not know what prompted you to ask the question, but the answer I would think should not be found in a poll of members but in a prayerful meeting with those who oversee your ministry Matt. Is this board not under the direct oversight of those who oversee you? What do they say?

I think it should be a question for them and not for us. To ask us seems a bit congregational. (that was a joke, because as we all know, the PB is not and has never been a church).



Phillip

[Edited on 10-24-05 by pastorway]

 

[Herald]

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis

Originally posted by houseparent
I do not want to sound like I am asking for a position here guys, but if you ever want a mod who isn't afraid to "sic" someone let me know. I am not as knowledgeable as many of you are, but if there is a poster who you deem a trouble maker and no one wants to be "mean" just let me know and I'll do it without hesitation.

Adam, now that is my personality style. Born and raised 10 miles west of Manhattan. New Yorker at heart.

What's driving me nuts Bill is the fact that a few whiners (sorry if that's harsh) seem to be causing a ton of grief and some, or even a most of it is going on behind the scenes.

These people even refuse to bring it into the light when a thread like this would enable them to do so. Here is there chance to speak their peace but they hide behind their monitors whimpering for this place to be closed in order to make them feel better about their precious feelings being hurt in a baptism (or insert your topic here) debate. It's really rather sickening to me.

There are views that I am not even decided on, but one thing I loved about this place was the ability to get many different views that weren't heretical. I could then turn to scripture, prayer, and my local church home to help me take a stand.

The fact that a few over emotional people want to rob the rest of us from what we get from the PB makes me angry,and as Dr. Banner would say, "trust me, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

Adam, we can only deal with the situations put before us. If a brother or sister on the PB has a specific problem, then we can isolate it and deal with it/them in love. We may never see eye to eye, but that is not a requisite for being a member of the PB. What does matter is how we deal with disagreements. What Matt and Scott need to see (and I am sure they do), is how the preponderance of the PB is blessed by the give and take type dialog. I can only imagine how many U2U's they must receive from folks who are offended at whatever landed in their Wheaties.

We should deal with those who disagree with us in love. Perhaps we are the one who is wrong. If that is the case, then we should be willing to do the right thing and move on. But once in a while we run into someone who is a contrarian by nature. There is nothing...NOTHING that will sway them. I have learned (by the school of hard knocks) to just leave them to God and move on. No jabs. No parting salvo across the bow. I just bless them and leave them to the Lord. And then I move on. I will not be shackled , no...I will not. There are brothers and sisters whom I can bless and be blessed by. I also have a lot to learn. I recently posted on "theological relevance." I want my life to resemble my theology. The PB has helped with insight that I often lack.

So what to do from here? Move forward with business as usual. If the mods and admins wish to address specific issues...so be it. But until then, let's continue the exchange of ideas and fellowship between brothers and sisters who are united in Christ.







[Edited on 10-24-2005 by BaptistInCrisis]

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Originally posted by pastorway
I do have one question, hopefully on topic, for Matt and Scott.

I do not know what prompted you to ask the question, but the answer I would think should not be found in a poll of members but in a prayerful meeting with those who oversee your ministry Matt. Is this board not under the direct oversight of those who oversee you? What do they say?

I think it should be a question for them and not for us.

To ask us seems a bit congregational. (that was a joke, because as we all know, the PB is not and has never been a church).

[Edited on 10-24-2005 by puritancovenanter]

 

[daveb]

I actually thought about whether the time was right for the PB to close earlier this week. There certainly are issues with the board (and with any board) and there are discussions that I've had my fill of and choose not to engage in. I did have a sense that the board had come "full term" exploring issues and having discussion on most every topic, but this is only from my perspective.

I may had read the major topics over the last few years but there are always new people joining. Even though I view certain topics like beating a dead horse there are others who are engaging them for the first time and eager to learn. I may think that rehashing an old topic is not worthwhile but I don't think that's shared by those participating in the thread.

Overall I think that the board is beneficial. Many know that I have no Reformed church of any sort to go to right now and know of no other Reformed Christians to discuss things with. The PB has been wonderful in providing me a place to learn from others. I look back to when I first joined and how much I was able to learn. The PB was and still is my favourite place on the web.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Even though I view certain topics like beating a dead horse there are others who are engaging them for the first time and eager to learn. I may think that rehashing an old topic is not worthwhile but I don't think that's shared by those participating in the thread.

Thank you!

The PB was and still is my favourite place on the web.

 

[tdowns]

Keep it open for learning.

Human beings are social animals, there are tons of articles and books and archives to read that cover every single thing ever written on this board, and most of it probably better than what is written here. And yes, I can try to find my pastor or someone to talk to in person about theology at any given moment of the day...not! I probably read more scripture here than my daily reading because it's quoted so much, I've learned of the confessions (and read them from quotes) here. (And then downloaded them to read from link here). The banter, discussion, rants, and propaganda put out on this board spurs me to read more from the sources, including the bible.....but......without this board, would I be interested in reading Calvin, would I want to read about covenant theology, would I care about baptism....no....And I probably wouldn't just go and read archives. It's fun to watch debates unfold, to discuss, to ask stupid questions, to say stupid things. Do we really think that all was pure and edited and quickly moderated when the ancients were hammering out stuff around a table over a beer. I do think moderators need to discern those new to the flock, point them to proper doctrine, encourage them to ask questions, but allow them to grow. Several times it seems to me that someone jumps in with both feet AND ARE WRONG in doctrine, only to be shot down so fast they may never return again to learn the truth. Tough balance to be sure, and I'm rambling from stream of consciousness here, but it would be a grave loss for many if you were to close this board.....or to so inhibit re-discussions of issues that it just becomes a library. People are social, they like to interact, allow those that want to discuss again instead of read old posts do so. And not all can handle heated discussion around a table in a bar over a beer, and not all can handle the board...so be it.

Not only that, I'll use the "Officer and a Gentlemen quote again...."I'VE GOT NO PLACE ELSE TO GO!"

I love you guys! Keep posting Pastor Way!

[Edited on 10-24-2005 by tdowns007]

 

[BlackCalvinist]

I haven't voted yet. I will by the time I get to the end of this post. I pray my post is allowed to stand unedited. If you are thinking of editing after reading, please save a copy for me and PM it to me.

The major problem with the PB is that a lot of folks still act as though they're in the 'cage stage'. Yes, men like Spurgeon, Edwards and other spoke the truth passionately. Yet, these men were also known as great lovers of sinners - and even lovers of non-Calvinistic believers. That's a huge issue over here and a LOT of folks need a check-up from the neck-up on it.

Biblical love is a lot more patient than 'if you need me to sic anybody, just let me know'. We're dealing with BRETHREN, not folks in the temple turning the Lord's house into a house of merchandise! Put the whip away.

A lot of us need to GROW UP (Hebrews 6 grow up). As I recently read on a blog.... Christ did not die for the the RPW or EP. Yet there was an EP thread that ran pages upon pages with cut-and-paste arguments all over the place. I came on the board as a progressive dispensationalist and instead of feeling the love of Christ, I got 'Why are dispensationalists even allowed to post on this board' ? WHAT kind of 'love for the brethren' is that ?

Any 'Calvinism' that promotes these kind of disagreements, this type of attitude and simply passes it off to 'people need to develop thicker skin' is SELFISH, ARROGANT AND SINFUL. It is focused on 'pleasing self' rather than 'pleasing a brother' :

1We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. (Romans 15:1-2)

focused on being RIGHT rather than encouraging and edifying and focused more on SECONDARY ISSUES than primary ones. The tendency among some on this board (and to be honest, I saw it more on the-highway than on here) is to think that 'mature Christianity' looks like an OPC worship service. Sorry - the entire world is a lot broader than this and the body of Christ is a lot broader than this. Yes, there are 'reformed churches' (in Africa) that don't do things the way reformed churches in Scotland, England or the US do. Yes, there are some 'praise and worship songs' that are VERY Biblical and deserve to be sung right alongside some of the old reliable favorites because they communicate biblical truth. Yes, it's okay to actually FEEL JOY because of the God who saved you. It doesn't mean you have to shut your mind down, contrary to the false dichotomy constantly put forth by some former charismatics-turned-reformed.

Yes, there is a difference between being 'nice' and being 'good'. Love is not always 'harsh', but seeing as though the bulk of us have not interacted in person with folks, let's be real...... would you talk to people on the PB in person like you do on here ? Look in your heart and answer this question honestly. If you can't say 'yes' legitimately, you're a hypocrite. Plain and simple.

So yes, we wonderful reformed folk have our own 'sin' issues that run beyond basic biblical doctrine. Love without truth is worthless, but truth without love is just as worthless. Last year, my Pastor told me I needed to spend more time with PEOPLE and less time on the computer. There is something a lot more beneficial to interacting with people IN PERSON instead of exclusively via a message board. You learn how to deal more properly with people and with those who disagree with you - and most importantly, if you're consistent, you'll learn how to love a whole lot better.

All that said...

Keep the PB. There is still much good here and perhaps the moderators and ownership can lead the way in showing others how to better treat their brothers and sisters in Christ who visit this board. From the standpoint of knowledge, there has been much learned here. And prayerfully, in the future, many of the 'issues' we have can be resolved if we spend more time with PEOPLE and less time on PB.

Don't end it - mend it.

Here's a starting point:

A Kinder, Gentler Calvinism (you know....the article you skipped over in the revised 5 Points book by Steel, Thomas and Quinn, because you wanted to see what book recommendations they had so you could make your list)

and Razormouth's old article http://web.archive.org/web/20040212060052/http://www.razormouth.com/archives/00000084.htm - Why I Left Calvinism....well, not really, but I thought about it! (for all you cage-stagers ------- 2 years or less as Calvinists...better extend that to 3.5 years or less....)

While some of this was 'vent', I'm praying that it generates an equal amount of heat AND light. I don't speak as though I'm innocent on some of the points above - I'm just leaving my 'cage stage' and I became a Calvinist in 2000. Hopefully, the heat will burn away some of the dross of human pride and misdirected zeal and the light will show the areas where we SHOULD focus and grow.

This is why R.C. Sproul can invite MacArthur to speak.

It's also why MacArthur recently invited C.J. Mahaney to speak out of his pulpit.

These are examples we can and should emulate, despite disagreeing on here. and this board can serve as a place to catch some 'internet Calvinists' who just found out about the doctrines of grace and now fight with ALL THEIR MIGHT against the dreaded Arminian boogie men all around them

[Edited on 10-24-2005 by OS_X]

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Originally posted by pastorway
Is this board not under the direct oversight of those who oversee you?

Phillip great question.

First it is under the Session's oversight of CCRPC. Then it is under the oversight of the Westminster Presbytery of RPCGA if CCRPC can't handle or needs help/counsel or is in doctrinal deviation from the Scriptures and 1647 WCF.

Its noted here:

"This Website is under the immediate oversight of Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church and the Westminster Presbytery of the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly."
cf.: http://www.puritanboard.com/Admins.htm

Also, the reason I made this poll was not for the (tongue in cheek) congregationalism of the board, but that there are many who support the board monetarily and we would not want to immediately overthrow them as well (if we were to close it down). The board is supported by donations (people pay for it) though I may take the brunt of "paying" for it (most proceedes come through extra donations from APM.)



[Edited on 10-24-2005 by webmaster]

 

[ReformedWretch]

Kerry;

I just want to say that I don't think it's fair to cite a comment I made that I've apalogized for because I was overly "worked up". That being said I will say that I am not upset, my feelings aren't hurt, and I won't leave because of it.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

If anyone's reading, I *did* edit and add some stuff to the end.

 

[Michael Butterfield]

May I say this respectfully? I think many are taking themselves and this board far too seriously. It is, after all, the web. Now I would not argue that many have been helped here and many have developed some real friendship here, but this is not the place to establish anything that even approaches the communion of the saints that you find in Church. I have voted to keep it going, but I have no real "œreason" for voting that way other than I simply enjoy the interaction whether positive or negative. Closing the board would fundamentally change nothing in those who are always the "œargumentative" types. Quite frankly, while I have thought some things posted here bordered on the ridiculous and inane I cannot say that things have ever risen to the levels of seriousness indicated on this thread as it relates to those who are offended, angry, rude, or otherwise. Everyone picks and chooses their battles and if you happen to get into one that is particularly heavy then your skin had better be a little thicker. It is quite common on the web and in e-mail for people to wear their emotions on their sleeves and get offended at the inoffensive. You see as much digital ink has been spilled on the web the one thing many people have not understood about how poor this medium is, is that it has no voice. Consequently, what people will do is impute a voice to the post or email. The voice could be correct or it could be incorrect, however, if you do not recognize that dynamic then you are setting yourself up to be offended. This dynamic is, of course, only exacerbated because most of us have never heard the other person speaking in person, on the phone, or otherwise. These "œoffenses," then, are more inevitable than they would otherwise be. As I end this, the PB is not the church and it does not seem, to this weak mind, that there is anything about the PB that is fundamentally inimical to the church, but it would be a mistake to quash dissent as long as it fell within the bounds of orthodoxy and I do not just mean Reformed orthodoxy. Certainly, it is right to place certain restrictions on joining members in a type of membership covenant, which would only serve as a help to preventing aberrations to the stated purpose of the PB, but there is no way to stop all dissent proper and otherwise in this present context except by "œTHE BAN" (to use a little Amish lingo) or by shutting the whole thing down. So, what will it be? Keep it going and recognizing the practical outworking of a standard Reformed doctrine that begins the beloved TULIP or discipline the egregious and repeat offenders with THE BAN or discipline all participating members by shutting the whole thing down. Obviously, if it is a matter of finances or some other issue like time that is a different subject, but for the stated or presumed reasons I offer the above.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Here's the thing...

MANY of us did not know there were any serious issues going on. Maybe we were stupid? Maybe we were foolish or blind? But the truth is, we simply didn't know. I still wouldn't know had I not chosen to e-mail a member and ask them if they would please tell me what this was all about.

In case any of you don't know, much of this "issue" is over a private discussion where a statement was made and stood behind that shocked and frustrated the person it was made about, as well as some others.

To present this problem as if it's about a few debates here on the board is problematic in my opinion. As I said, I would still be in the dark if I had not sought to find an answer from someone.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by houseparent
Kerry;

I just want to say that I don't think it's fair to cite a comment I made that I've apalogized for because I was overly "worked up". That being said I will say that I am not upset, my feelings aren't hurt, and I won't leave because of it.

You're not ?

Well, in that case, I have a few choice words for you, Adam!













I apologize if you feel I wrongly cited you. I wasn't trying to be unfair, just using it as an example (specifically since some 'agreed' with you there - and usually, that means there might be more folks who agree, but just ain't sayin' nothin'). Please forgive me if you feel slighted in the least.