College Football Bowl Games -- The Playoffs!

[Marrow Man]

Well, at least Cincy scored more points than Hawaii a couple of years ago. The Sugar Bowl is beginning to develop a reputation as a "blow out bowl," last year's upset of Bama by Utah being a notable exception.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

Well, at least Cincy scored more points than Hawaii a couple of years ago. The Sugar Bowl is beginning to develop a reputation as a "blow out bowl," last year's upset of Bama by Utah being a notable exception.

Actually, the Utah-Bama game was a blowout as well, just with the underdog winning...

 

[Soonerborn]

Come on Michigan State!

 

[Marrow Man]

Well, at least Cincy scored more points than Hawaii a couple of years ago. The Sugar Bowl is beginning to develop a reputation as a "blow out bowl," last year's upset of Bama by Utah being a notable exception.

Actually, the Utah-Bama game was a blowout as well, just with the underdog winning...

I was actually calling 25-30 point victories (LSU over Notre Dame, Georgia over Hawaii, Florida over Cincinnati) as blow outs. The Utah game, while a sound and solid victory, was by 14 points.

 

[Marrow Man]

Well, no one got the Boise St v. TCU game correct last evening, but with only two bowl games left (not including the BCS championship, which is a tie-breaker only), I think we are prepared to declare a winner in the College Football Bowl Pick 'em games for 2009-2010.

With a current record of 21-10, the winner is BackwoodsPresbyterian! Congrats, Benjamin!

Tripel is next closest with 18-13 (19 with the bonus), but he and Benjamin have the same pick for tonight's Orange Bowl.

A few others have 18 wins (HokieAirman, Soonerborn, DD2009), but with only 2 games left, they cannot catch Benjamin either.

Your prize? Another one of these and the "honor" of hosting the college pick 'em games for next year!

Now why do I think that Pitt and Marshall games with be the tie-breakers and feature games?

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

You got it.

Marshall and Pitt and no SEC games.

 

[Romans922]

At the end of it all, can we get a final tally to see where we ended up? Thanks! (No hurry on it)

 

[Marrow Man]

You got it.

Marshall and Pitt and no SEC games.

Andrew: no problem. I was planning to do that, but I wanted to post the winner as soon as possible. I think it would be interesting to see who gets second and third as well.

 

[Marrow Man]

Here are a couple of interesting "conference stats" (from ESPN.com) after last night's Orange Bowl (where Iowa was quite impressive, but confirmed what I've pretty much said all along -- Georgia Tech is good, but highly overrated):

• The Big Ten improved to 4-3 in bowl games this season, the conference's first winning record since 2002.

• The ACC dropped to 2-10 in BCS games all-time.

Those are two pretty ugly stats.

But things are also tough all over. If my counting is correct, here are the conference records for bowls thus far (keeping in mind the SEC and Big XII still have one game left):

Pac-10 2-5

Big-10 4-3

Big XII 4-3

SEC 5-4

Big East 4-2

ACC 3-4

By far, the best of the major conferences is the one that often gets the least respect: the Big East. But among their two loses, one was a blow out (Florida/Cincy) and the other was a loss that shouldn't have been (WV/FSU -- WV was the better team, but their QB got hurt and it all went downhill from there).

Only two conferences will finish with losing records (ACC and PAC-10). The ACC has performed notoriously badly the last few years. The PAC-10 went undefeated last year. Go figure.

Either the Big XII or the SEC will finish at .500, depending on tomorrow night's game.

Just some observations.

 

[Michael]

That's ok. The SEC is going to finish up 6-4 (shoulda been 7-3 but LSU blew it against Penn St.) with another national championship team under its belt.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

LSU "blew it against Penn State"?? Did you see the stat line? PSU dominated statistically with 100 more total yards and 15 more minutes in time of possession. They look unstoppable in the first half but slowed down a bit in the second until the last drive. Could have easily been a 2-3 TD game.

To anyone with objectivity this bowl season has exposed the mediocrity of the SEC this year. The only notable win is Florida over Cincy, a team that was without their coach and offensive play-caller. Ole Miss, Arkansas, and Auburn all won, but looked bad against inferior teams - both Arkansas and Auburn would have lost if their opponents could kick field goals.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Here are a couple of interesting "conference stats" (from ESPN.com) after last night's Orange Bowl (where Iowa was quite impressive, but confirmed what I've pretty much said all along -- Georgia Tech is good, but highly overrated):

• The Big Ten improved to 4-3 in bowl games this season, the conference's first winning record since 2002.

• The ACC dropped to 2-10 in BCS games all-time.

Those are two pretty ugly stats.

But things are also tough all over. If my counting is correct, here are the conference records for bowls thus far (keeping in mind the SEC and Big XII still have one game left):

Pac-10 2-5

Big-10 4-3

Big XII 4-3

SEC 5-4

Big East 4-2

ACC 3-4

By far, the best of the major conferences is the one that often gets the least respect: the Big East. But among their two loses, one was a blow out (Florida/Cincy) and the other was a loss that shouldn't have been (WV/FSU -- WV was the better team, but their QB got hurt and it all went downhill from there).

Only two conferences will finish with losing records (ACC and PAC-10). The ACC has performed notoriously badly the last few years. The PAC-10 went undefeated last year. Go figure.

Either the Big XII or the SEC will finish at .500, depending on tomorrow night's game.

Just some observations.

I make no bones about the fact that I am a Big East apologist. They receive all kinds of undeserved flack. I keep hearing all kinds of stuff about Cincy and their blowout against Florida. There is no question in my mind if Pitt beats Cincy in Pittsburgh and goes to the Sugar vs. Florida they probably would not win but it would have been a heckuva lot better game. Cincy had an atrocious defense all season (see the UConn and WVU games) and I should have known UF would destroy them because of it.

The SEC won two bowl games they should have lost. Arkansas and Auburn have atrocious kickers to thank for losing. (For that matter Alabama as well should be thankful for bad kickers).

 

[Marrow Man]

To anyone with objectivity this bowl season has exposed the mediocrity of the SEC this year. The only notable win is Florida over Cincy, a team that was without their coach and offensive play-caller. Ole Miss, Arkansas, and Auburn all won, but looked bad against inferior teams - both Arkansas and Auburn would have lost if their opponents could kick field goals.

If that is your criterion, Mason, then you would have to say that this bowl season exposed the mediocrity of ALL the conferences (save the Big East). All of the other major conferences are going to finish around (or below) .500.

I don't think anyone thinks that the outcome of the Cincy-Florida game would have been any different if Brian Kelly had stuck around. Benjamin is right -- their defense is awful, and they came up against one of the best defenses in the country in that game, so the outcome was to be expected.

Certainly the SEC is down this year. You had several 7-5 teams that are difficult to rank top to bottom in the conference (one of the reason you had the oddity of having an Auburn in one of the top SEC bowls). Tennessee and Kentucky fell into games for primarily geographical reasons, where they faced match ups against superior opponents. Does anybody think that putting 7-5 teams from the SEC against the # 2 and # 4 teams in the ACC are supposed to be equal match ups? The other factor you are not considering is that Arkansas, Auburn, and Tennessee did not go to bowl games last year (they had losing records). Two of those teams have first year head coaches, and the other a second year head coach. All are rebuilding and are improving from where they were a year ago.

And I would also say that a 44-20 win by an SEC school over a Big XII school (one that gave Texas fits) counts as a "notable win" of sorts.

 

[Marrow Man]

The SEC won two bowl games they should have lost. Arkansas and Auburn have atrocious kickers to thank for losing. (For that matter Alabama as well should be thankful for bad kickers).

What am I not remembering here about Alabama? They beat Tennessee because a last second field goal was blocked by their special teams, not because of a bad kicker. Something in the Auburn game maybe (didn't watch any of it except for the last half of the 4th quarter).

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I meant to put in "special teams" instead of kicker. Nomenclature mistake.

 

[Marrow Man]

Well, for that matter. Texas can be thankful for favorable refereeing in being in the title game! If not for that, we might have seen an Alabama-Cincy matchup --> and that might have been real ugly!

Of course, Bama didn't bother showing up for the Sugar Bowl last year, so who knows what will happen tomorrow evening.

 

[SolaScriptura]

All I care is that Iowa defeated Georgia Tech!!!

 

[coramdeo]

GO HORNS! who cares about the rest!

 

[Michael]

To anyone with objectivity this bowl season has exposed the mediocrity of the SEC this year.

Well that pretty much fits into my point. What's 'mediocre' for the SEC is still better than any other conference. Still the best collective set of teams, coaches, NFL talent, and let's not forget 3 national championships in a row (or 4 outta the last 6).

 

[Marrow Man]

All I care is that Iowa defeated Georgia Tech!!!

And looked absolutely dominant in doing so. Great offensive and defensive line work! And Iowa has been one bright spot for the Big 10 the last few seasons.

 

[Marrow Man]

To anyone with objectivity this bowl season has exposed the mediocrity of the SEC this year.

Well that pretty much fits into my point. What's 'mediocre' for the SEC is still better than any other conference. Still the best collective set of teams, coaches, NFL talent, and let's not forget 3 national championships in a row (or 4 outta the last 6).

A great point. Of course, one has to give lots of credit to the Big East, because they are the bowl beasts for this season.

OTOH, one could say that against the SEC they went 1-1. The best team in the Big East was crushed by the #2 SEC team, while the # 6 Big East team easily handled the # 10 SEC team.

How's that for comparisons? I like UConn well enough and I don't like Spurrier, so this last one I didn't mind too much.

 

[Michael]

The Big East is indeed getting better but the jury is still out if they can hang with the big boys year in and year out.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

They "hung" pretty well with Georgia and Oklahoma over the last couple of years.

 

[Michael]

All I care is that Iowa defeated Georgia Tech!!!

My goodness, did they ever! They looked far better than I thought they would against Tech. Congrats!

 

[Marrow Man]

They "hung" pretty well with Georgia and Oklahoma over the last couple of years.

Interestingly, Mark Richt's only two loses in bowl games were to Big East teams (a 10 point loss to Boston College -- when they were still in the BE, and a 3 point loss to WV in the "non-New Orleans" Sugar Bowl a couple of years back.

The thing I hate about that Sugar Bowl loss is that West Virginia starting playing before Georgia showed up in the second quarter. Georgia spotted them 28 points (that's right -- WV jumped out to a 28-0 lead!) before Georgia took the field. I don't know who those guys were before that. Anyway, Georgia actually won that game from the second quarter on 35-10, but some technicality with the NCAA forced them to count the first quarter as well, and so Georgia lost 38-35.

BTW, WV likely won that game because of a gutsy fake FG call by Rich Rodriguez at mid-field. If they punt the ball away or miss the try (with about 2 minutes left), things could have gotten interesting. But they made the play and were able to run out the clock. I don't like WV, but they deserve the tip of the hat for that one.

 

[Michael]

Setting aside my SEC goggles, I really believe the ACC may finally start living up to potential next year.

• Florida State will improve now that they have one person to answer to. Plus they've got one heck of a quarterback if he stays healthy.
  
• Georgia Tech just lost the Orange Bowl but what coach Johnson has accomplished in two years is really remarkable. They're definitely on the up and up.
  
• Miami is for real and will be a top 10 team next year.
  
• Virginia Tech and Clemson are always solid.
  
• Even North Carolina could surprise some. They've got 4 NFL caliber players on defense that have decided to return next year.

These 6 teams should be enough to shake things up.

 

[Marrow Man]

A couple of things the Big East has going against it that we need to remember:

1) Arguably two of the best teams (Miami and Virginia Tech) jumped ship to the ACC a few years back. Right or not, that was perceived to be a loss of strength for the conference.

2) Some of the teams have no football history. UConn and South Florida are VERY new programs. I remember my alma mater Georgia Southern (a I-AA school) playing both schools (and trouncing theme) while they were trying to install football programs. It's hard to get respect when you do not have historical programs. If we were to think in Van Tillian terms, think of all the "borrowed capital" Notre Dame has from its history even though they've stunk for the better part of two decades.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

To anyone with objectivity this bowl season has exposed the mediocrity of the SEC this year.

Well that pretty much fits into my point. What's 'mediocre' for the SEC is still better than any other conference. Still the best collective set of teams, coaches, NFL talent, and let's not forget 3 national championships in a row (or 4 outta the last 6).

This is what I love about SEC fans: the SEC is always best, regardless of what actually happens on the field. Let's look at each of your claims:

Best collective set of teams: Look, the SEC is the best conference some years - last season, for example. But they are probably the 3rd or 4th best conference top to bottom this season based on actual results. Alabama and Florida are very good, LSU is good, and then there is a massive drop to the rest. Other than Florida beating Cincy and possibly Alabama beating Texas, the SEC will not have a single other win over a final OOC Top 10. That compares poorly to the Big 10 and PAC 10. And their bowl record is a very middle of the road 5-4 with the only win of note coming against Cincy.

Coaches: Saban and Meyer are proven coaches, but the rest are pretty suspect. Richt has no major wins out of conference. Spurrier hasn't done anything at any level since he left Florida. Kiffen is unproven in college and was mediocre in the NFL. Nutt is Nutt. Miles is a good recruiter but bad at game management. Petrino was respectable at Louisville but has done nothing since. Chizik still has a losing record in college. So that's two truly good coaches in the bunch. The Big 10 has Paterno, Tressel, and Ferenz, and Rodriguez was strong at West Virginia. The PAC 10 has Kelly, Carroll, Erickson. The Big 12 has Stoops, Brown, with solid coaches in Gundy and Pellini. The point is the SEC has some good coaches and some OK coaches - but that's no better than any of the other major conferences.

NFL talent - ACC has more NFL first round selections over the past few years (NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive ACC leading the way in producing first-round talent ). And the SEC has a few stars (Mannings, Percy Harvin, Ronnie Brown), but so does every other conference (Brady, Santonio Holmes, Mario Manningham, Drew Brees for the Big 10, for example). So this assertion is just plain wrong.

National champs: OK, I'll give you 3 national titles in a row, but that could imply overall conference weakness: the easier a conference is, the easier it is to run the table the way both Florida and Bama have done the past two seasons. It speaks to a lack of parity, not overall strength. And to be consistent, if Texas beats Alabama, will you concede that the Big 12 is the better conference?

So really none of what you say validates the SEC as the best conference year after year. They have strong years like every other conference, but they are not consistently the best. Just get over the passion and emotion (hard to do as a college football fan, as I know all too well) and you'll see that there is nothing superhuman about the SEC...

 

[Michael]

This is what I love about SEC fans: the SEC is always best,

Didn't catch your whole post but at least we understand each other.

 

[Marrow Man]

Mason, you cite Dennis Erickson and Mike Gundy as examples of "good" coaches, while you characterize (by implication) Mark Richt and Les Miles as "pretty suspect." Erickson has been a bust the last two years at Arizona State, and Gundy has yet to win either a divisional title or even 10 games in a season while at Oklahoma State. OTOH, Richt's team has beaten Erickson's the last two seasons. In addition, Richt has two SEC titles, has coached his team to three BCS appearances, a 7-2 bowl record, and one of the best winning percentages (and number of wins) of any head coach, including non-conference opponents (again, see the bowl record). And Les Miles has won an SEC championship, a couple of divisional titles, and a national championship. None of that is "suspect," especially when compared to Erickson and Gundy.

National champs: OK, I'll give you 3 national titles in a row, but that could imply overall conference weakness: the easier a conference is, the easier it is to run the table the way both Florida and Bama have done the past two seasons. It speaks to a lack of parity, not overall strength.

Actually, one could make the case that the reason Ohio State makes it to the BCS every season (and two BCS title games two years in a row, where they were embarrassed by the SEC on both occasions) is for this reason -- an overall weak conference. The same could be said of the PAC-10 -- sure, USC is a great team, but they play in a conference in which there was virtually no parity until this past season. And one thing that actually hurts those two conferences (strength-wise) is that teams can win without having to play in a championship game. Ohio State can win the Big 10 without even necessarily playing the best team (other than themselves) in the conference.

Other than Florida beating Cincy and possibly Alabama beating Texas, the SEC will not have a single other win over a final OOC Top 10. That compares poorly to the Big 10 and PAC 10.

Actually, the way the bowls set up, only Alabama and Florida were matched against Top 10 teams. So if Bama does win, that'll mean the SEC went 2-0 against top ten opponents. The Big Ten has done well this bowl season, but the PAC-10? Oregon State lost (to a Big-10 team). And outside of the three really good Big 10 teams, what did the rest of the conference do? 1-3.