Contemporary Worship?

[kevin.carroll]

What distresses me in that question (not in you, necessarily) is the implicit idea that only sining is worship. The Church has bigger problems than music styles. She has lost her theology of worship.

 

[ChariotsofFire]

Much of what we see in American churches today of "contemporary" worship is man-centered and emotional for the sake of being emotional. It is not a matter of preference. It is a matter of having God-glorifying worship. There are some modern songs that are very God glorifying, and there are some songs that do not honor God. There are ways to sing these God glorifying songs (as a congregation), and ways to sing songs in a way that does not honor God (praise teams that shift the focus from God to man). While I see merit in including some of the more modern songs into worship, I don't see any value in singing them with praise teams or choirs.

Another observation about this style of music is that it often lends itself to emotionalism, rather than true emotions that flow from singing about the things of God (not to say that this isn't possible with singing hymns).

 

[kevin.carroll]

I realize we are not allowed to talk about this but how do pro-instrumental people, using the RPW, confine musical instrumentation to mere accompaniment? How, using the RPW, are instruments called to be "un-intrusive" upon the elements of worship? Are instruments really circumstances?

Let me answer a question with a question. Why must we sing the Psalms, but we cannot DO the Psalms (i.e. use instruments)? Makes no sense to me.

I agree that instruments are circumstances in much the same way that the version of the Scriptures that is read and preached is. I use the ESV, frankly avoiding the KJV, because the language of the ESV is an aid to hearing and understanding.

No argument from me on praise bands.

 

[JBaldwin]

As I read through this thread, I still get the impression that there is not a concensus on the meaning of the word contemporary. Does contemporary refer to the words? Does it refer to the music? To both the words and the music? Does it mean written sometime in the last 10 years? As others have already said, if you are just talking about something written recently, than there is no big deal. If you are speaking of shallow, fluffy lyrics that say nothing, that is a completely different issue.

My own church uses quite a mix. If I gave you the words to some of the songs we sing in our worship on Sunday, you would recognize that we are singing songs that are written exactly as they appear in many Psalters. If you heard the music and the instrumental accompaniment only, you might guess that we are singing something we picked up on christian radio. If you listened to the congregation sing during worship, you would think you were listening to a choir. If that is contemporary worship, than give me more.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I realize we are not allowed to talk about this but how do pro-instrumental people, using the RPW, confine musical instrumentation to mere accompaniment? How, using the RPW, are instruments called to be "un-intrusive" upon the elements of worship? Are instruments really circumstances?

Let me answer a question with a question. Why must we sing the Psalms, but we cannot DO the Psalms (i.e. use instruments)? Makes no sense to me.

Should we sacrifice bulls in worship since the Psalms tell us to?

 

[JBaldwin]

I realize we are not allowed to talk about this but how do pro-instrumental people, using the RPW, confine musical instrumentation to mere accompaniment? How, using the RPW, are instruments called to be "un-intrusive" upon the elements of worship? Are instruments really circumstances?

Let me answer a question with a question. Why must we sing the Psalms, but we cannot DO the Psalms (i.e. use instruments)? Makes no sense to me.

I agree that instruments are circumstances in much the same way that the version of the Scriptures that is read and preached is. I use the ESV, frankly avoiding the KJV, because the language of the ESV is an aid to hearing and understanding.

Good point.

 

[kevin.carroll]

Should we sacrifice bulls in worship since the Psalms tell us to?

Clearly not, but your question certainy underscores the inconsistency in how the Psalms in worship. I say this as a Psalm singer!

 

[Grillsy]

Ben, unless I have missed something somewhere along the line, the use of instruments as a circumstance is the one argument which RPW-adhering instrumentalists bring forth. Someone please correct me here if I am mistaken. Since the people may have a hard time singing together without aid, they provide an accompaniment to allow the element to be performed more smoothly. If an instrumentalist reading this take exception to my description of your position, please correct.

You're right. And thank you for helping to distinguish from the position of the modern type worship band whereby we are made to endure 10 minute long shredding guitar solos whilst the audiences cheers for the picker.

 

[Webservant]

Dont forget that all music was at one point ''contemporary''. I see no problem with it as we are singing ''psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs'' as commanded by Scripture.We are not given a genre to choose from. Hymns with poorly theological lyrics are no better (actually they are worse) than contemporary ones with solid lyrics.

No, everyone knows the Israelites dragged a pipe-organ through the desert with them.

 

[KMK]

Contemporary worship just isn't what it used to be.

I agree. Bands like 2nd Chapter of Acts, and Sweet Comfort Band, and Resurrection Band just don't stack up against "The Mighty Clouds of Joy" and the Gaithers.

 

[alb1]

Ive been in several churches that do a mixture of traditional hymns and modern spiritual songs in worship. For me personally the modern songs are what stay in my heart and mind during the week. If psalms and or hymns aid you in living a Christian life, then seek a church that sings psalms and or hymns. God receives the praise and you receive the benefit of a joy filled life.

 

[NRB]

The PCA church in which my wife and I are members sing hymns out of the Trinity Hymnal (I believe that's the name), but it's like the Trinity Psalter, but with a lot more old hymns. It has a red cover and a triangular shape on the front cover.

During our corporate worship we have a "praise and worship" group of sorts...2 ladies and a guy with an acoustic guitar. They sing 3 songs every service, lyrics printed in the service bulletin.
It's done during and just after "The Greeting of One Another". I think it's cool as long as they don't go too far with contemporary songs from current radio.
But, I could live without it. My wife absolutely loves it and it sold her on joining this particular PCA church.

I'm wishy washy that way to be honest.
It's not like they sing stuff on contemporary christian radio, but they have sung the old "contemporary standard" called "Blessed Be Your Name" if that gives you all an idea on what our church does.

Thankyou for listening.

 

[Kevin]

John & Albert, thanks for sharing.

 

[ewenlin]

Tian Long, where are you worshipping at?

I worship at a RB church that has traditional worship only - hymns etc.

Look, I realised I've opened quite a big can of worms - yikes! Yes I am talking about song and music in worship only. I do not espouse the "movies", the dramas and likewise seen in many modern churches today. Apologies for poorly defining what I meant.

What I am saying is that is it possible to so-call adopt newer styles of music, maybe even newer instruments without violating the Regulative principle. (If you don't believe in instruments then only the 1st part applies to you)

Lots of people have provided many useful posts, thanks a lot.

Where exactly?

I'm from Singapore too btw

 

[wookie]

Hi Tian Long,

I was at your church premises yesterday and I bought a couple of books from Francis. One of the books I bought is called Perspectives on Christian Worship (I think there's one copy left), which interacts with five views of worship. You might be interested in two of the views: traditional evangelical worship and blended worship. Ligon Duncan, a Presbyterian, contributes to the essay on traditional evangelical worship, while Michael Lawrence and Mark Dever contribute to the essay on blended worship (do note that the blended worship discussed in this book is different from Robert Webber's view). While both views hold to the Regulative Principle (as Duncan would admit in page 275 when responding to blended worship), the difference, as Duncan notes, comes down to how the Regulative Principle is applied.

From what I can see, traditional Presbyterians understand the Regulative Principle as being applied only to corporate worship. However, there are some of us (e.g. John Frame, David Peterson, D. A. Carson, Mark Dever etc) who understand the Regulative Principle as being applied to all-of-life worship. We believe that corporate worship is a particular expression of all-of-life worship and the Bible gives general principles of how we should approach God in worship everywhere, whether in private, in our families, or in the public assemblies. For us, the style of music is not important. What concerns us in corporate worship is that the congregation is edified and moved in response to the truths of the gospel rather than through artificial stimuli like mood, music, and lighting.

 

[SemperEruditio]

If after the song you have an urge to applaud then there's a problem. We have a blended service and I would say that after reading the stuff here and the CPJ I am becoming more and more uncomfortable. We had another church provide the music and such during Reformation Day service and after every quick tempo song there was this automatic response by the congregation to applaud. At that point I think there is a problem. I questioned a few and of course they claim they are "praising the Lord" but I ask why there weren't any applause during the more traditional songs...?

 

[tlharvey7]

REV 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,

“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation,

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

What is the point you are trying to make with that particular verse Thomas? Of course Christ died for people from every nation. That verse says nothing about singing "new songs" from each new nation.

Besides Rev 5 describes worship and a particular event in Heaven, not Earth in the local Church in public stated worship.

 

[reformedminister]

Personally, I believe that having "praise bands" is in violation of the RPW. I am not against contemporary songs (all hymns were contemporary at some point), as long as they are Scripturally correct. I think it is a shame that many churches have thrown out psalms and our beloved hymns altogether, and sing only modern choruses in an effort to fit into the modern world. One of the best "blended" services that I have ever attended was a large EPC church that had several thousand members. They sang mostly hymns but had a couple of contemporary choruses. The hymns were accompanied by the piano and the contemporary choruses were accompanied by an acoustic guitar. There was no "praise band". The focus was on worshipping God. The Christian Church has a heritage that needs to be understood not ignored or thrown out. Many young people love and cherish traditional worship, not only because of it's heritage but because of it's dignity and focus on God. I have a teenage son, as well as one in his early twenties. Neither of them have run from the church to embrace contemporary styles, probably because of their upbringing, as well as what they see in both.

 

[KMK]

Personally, I believe that having "praise bands" is in violation of the RPW. I am not against contemporary songs (all hymns were contemporary at some point), as long as they are Scripturally correct. I think it is a shame that many churches have thrown out psalms and our beloved hymns altogether, and sing only modern choruses in an effort to fit into the modern world. One of the best "blended" services that I have ever attended was a large EPC church that had several thousand members. They sang mostly hymns but had a couple of contemporary choruses. The hymns were accompanied by the piano and the contemporary choruses were accompanied by an acoustic guitar. There was no "praise band". The focus was on worshipping God. The Christian Church has a heritage that needs to be understood not ignored or thrown out. Many young people love and cherish traditional worship, not only because of it's heritage but because of it's dignity and focus on God. I have a teenage son, as well as one in his early twenties. Neither of them have run from the church to embrace contemporary styles, probably because of their upbringing, as well as what they see in both.

Can you define what a 'Praise Band' is?

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

Personally, I believe that having "praise bands" is in violation of the RPW. I am not against contemporary songs (all hymns were contemporary at some point), as long as they are Scripturally correct. I think it is a shame that many churches have thrown out psalms and our beloved hymns altogether, and sing only modern choruses in an effort to fit into the modern world. One of the best "blended" services that I have ever attended was a large EPC church that had several thousand members. They sang mostly hymns but had a couple of contemporary choruses. The hymns were accompanied by the piano and the contemporary choruses were accompanied by an acoustic guitar. There was no "praise band". The focus was on worshipping God. The Christian Church has a heritage that needs to be understood not ignored or thrown out. Many young people love and cherish traditional worship, not only because of it's heritage but because of it's dignity and focus on God. I have a teenage son, as well as one in his early twenties. Neither of them have run from the church to embrace contemporary styles, probably because of their upbringing, as well as what they see in both.

Are you saying people can't focus on God with a praise band? I don't think that's a fair generalization at all.

For the record, I'm a traditional hymn/psalm guy, but I've come to realize that if I don't focus on the Lord during worship, the fault is almost always mine, not the style of music or the size of the band.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Are you saying people can't focus on God with a praise band? I don't think that's a fair generalization at all.

For the record, I'm a traditional hymn/psalm guy, but I've come to realize that if I don't focus on the Lord during worship, the fault is almost always mine, not the style of music or the size of the band.

I feel like a praise band actually brings glory to the musicians and those "performing" for their target audience the people. Those situations simply get out of hand and the next thing you know your church is a concert hall every Sunday and people are talking about what a great guitarist, drummer, singer, so and so is. "Dude, you've got to come to church on sunday and hear this dude rip on the guitar!"...etc

God is the primary audience of worship, not the people.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Personally, I believe that having "praise bands" is in violation of the RPW. I am not against contemporary songs (all hymns were contemporary at some point), as long as they are Scripturally correct. I think it is a shame that many churches have thrown out psalms and our beloved hymns altogether, and sing only modern choruses in an effort to fit into the modern world. One of the best "blended" services that I have ever attended was a large EPC church that had several thousand members. They sang mostly hymns but had a couple of contemporary choruses. The hymns were accompanied by the piano and the contemporary choruses were accompanied by an acoustic guitar. There was no "praise band". The focus was on worshipping God. The Christian Church has a heritage that needs to be understood not ignored or thrown out. Many young people love and cherish traditional worship, not only because of it's heritage but because of it's dignity and focus on God. I have a teenage son, as well as one in his early twenties. Neither of them have run from the church to embrace contemporary styles, probably because of their upbringing, as well as what they see in both.

Are you saying people can't focus on God with a praise band? I don't think that's a fair generalization at all.

For the record, I'm a traditional hymn/psalm guy, but I've come to realize that if I don't focus on the Lord during worship, the fault is almost always mine, not the style of music or the size of the band.

My main problem with multi-instrument "praise bands" (and Organs as well) is that they invariably drown out the congregation, which is the real point of singing in Worship. Offering up United praise to God.

I myself have never seen a praise band at any church I have attended (this includes PCA and ARP churches) that did not by its very nature make me unable to hear the congregation singing together praise to God and it always drew attention to itself and away from the congregation.

 

[reformedminister]

[Can you define what a 'Praise Band' is?

I understand a praise band to be somewhat like a rock band, with electric guitars, bass, drums, keyboard. In a contemporary worship setting they put on a show and play contemporary Christian music.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

[Can you define what a 'Praise Band' is?

I understand a praise band to be somewhat like a rock band, with electric guitars, bass, drums, keyboard. In a contemporary worship setting they put on a show and play contemporary Christian music.

That is the kind of situation that repulses me and drives me out the door. I do not feel comfortable in that kind of enviroment at all. I hope our church never goes that way.

 

[reformedminister]

[Can you define what a 'Praise Band' is?

I understand a praise band to be somewhat like a rock band, with electric guitars, bass, drums, keyboard. In a contemporary worship setting they put on a show and play contemporary Christian music.

That is the kind of situation that repulses me and drives me out the door. I do not feel comfortable in that kind of enviroment at all. I hope our church never goes that way.

I have pastored two churches like that. One was a United Methodist church and the other a General Baptist church. I did not like the music at all. At least the Methodist church had a traditional service with hymns. Believe me when I tell you that it was about "putting on a show". The Methodist church didn't even have a pulpit. I used a lecturn (which I purchased myself) on the floor. One time we were having several local churches come over for a seasonal gathering and I put the lecturn on "the stage" so I could more easily address a larger group. The leader of the praise band moved my lecturn back onto the floor before the service. I guess he didn't want me to be the center "stage" of attention.

 

[ewenlin]

The best representation of contemporary worship/praise band is Hillsong Australia in my opinion.

 

[Mushroom]

I understand a praise band to be somewhat like a rock band, with electric guitars, bass, drums, keyboard. In a contemporary worship setting they put on a show and play contemporary Christian music.

That is the kind of situation that repulses me and drives me out the door. I do not feel comfortable in that kind of enviroment at all. I hope our church never goes that way.

I have pastored two churches like that. One was a United Methodist church and the other a General Baptist church. I did not like the music at all. At least the Methodist church had a traditional service with hymns. Believe me when I tell you that it was about "putting on a show". The Methodist church didn't even have a pulpit. I used a lecturn (which I purchased myself) on the floor. One time we were having several local churches come over for a seasonal gathering and I put the lecturn on "the stage" so I could more easily address a larger group. The leader of the praise band moved my lecturn back onto the floor before the service. I guess he didn't want me to be the center "stage" of attention.

I always wondered if these praise band folks would be as committed to their 'ministry' if they were forced to set up at the back of the assembly.

 

[Augusta]

I realize we are not allowed to talk about this but how do pro-instrumental people, using the RPW, confine musical instrumentation to mere accompaniment? How, using the RPW, are instruments called to be "un-intrusive" upon the elements of worship? Are instruments really circumstances?

Let me answer a question with a question. Why must we sing the Psalms, but we cannot DO the Psalms (i.e. use instruments)? Makes no sense to me.

I agree that instruments are circumstances in much the same way that the version of the Scriptures that is read and preached is. I use the ESV, frankly avoiding the KJV, because the language of the ESV is an aid to hearing and understanding.

No argument from me on praise bands.

In the OT Temple worship the singers and the players were ordained offices of worship not circumstances. You can't just resurrect these offices without NT warrant once they have been torn down. The offices that are now in effect are clear in the NT and players of instruments and/or singers are not one of them.

It is called a circumstance now to sneak it in. It is not necessary in my opinion. All you need are one or two people in your congregation, who have a good ear and can keep in tune, to sing loud and clear so that other can follow their lead through tough compositons. Acappella singing is so beautiful even if everyone is not a good singer. Voices raised in praise to God are beautiful.

 

[ChariotsofFire]

[Can you define what a 'Praise Band' is?

I understand a praise band to be somewhat like a rock band, with electric guitars, bass, drums, keyboard. In a contemporary worship setting they put on a show and play contemporary Christian music.

That is the kind of situation that repulses me and drives me out the door. I do not feel comfortable in that kind of enviroment at all. I hope our church never goes that way.

I too am uncomfortable in this setting because of the blatant man-centered worship. This type of worship focuses on the people singing on stage or the music itself. I am against people singing at me, while I am for the Biblical model of congregational singing. I'm not against different types of instruments, just so that the instruments are used for their proper purpose which is accompaniment. Some instruments are not useful for accompaniment (perhaps drums, loud organs, electrified music?,) and thus should not be used.