I don't remember typing "birthdays"...I'm not sure how it got in there either; honest mistake. I know you said you would defer to others on this, but this is something I'd eventually like to find out considering that there have been two interpretations (CV and PV) over this verse. The original languages would help. I'll probably go to the library and search it out. Agree 100%. I have a couple more questions though, if you don't feel comfortable answering them, no problem. You have consistently referred to celebrating christmas, et. al. as idolatry. Very strong language, and at the same time I do not intend nor desire to break God's commands against idolatry. By implication I am an idolater unless I hold the PV of the 4th commandment. I think this is harsh and inaccurate obviously, but it doesn't bother me because I could just as easily say that the PV view is idolatry because it worships God with Jewish ceremony rather than NT principle. This is not what I think, but I could just as easily say it. My saying it proves nothing though, nor does your saying it prove anything. Its just an assertion I think used to put force behind the position. If the CV view of holidays is idolatry, then you have condemned many people, and all we can hope for is that their hearts are better than their heads. I am willing to say that either the CV or the PV is wrong, but I am not willing to say that either side is commiting idolatry. Why? Because both views are seeking to honor the fourth commandment. It isn't a question of should we(?), but how? Antinomians do not even ask how, and so make up their own ways. The CV does not make up their own ways, but deduces it from biblical teaching. But I respect your strong conviction on this. So my questions are this: If I agreed with everything in the WCF exactly as your denomination (or you) interprets the confession and the bible, except for celebrating christmas in my own home with my family and friends (christmas being defined for me as- no tree, no presents, a focus on Christ, a reading of the prophecy and advent of Christ, a meal, singing hymns, prayer), would I be allowed to join even as a layman? In other words, if I agreed with all the essential creedal historical doctrines, and all the distinctives of the WCF except for this issue of the proper view of the 4th commandment, would I be allowed for membership? I only ask this because idolatry has strong implications. Thanks Andrew.