Controversy over outfit

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AnnaBanana

Puritan Board Freshman
I heard a song on the radio this past weekend by the christian singer, Lauren Daigle called You say.

When I came home to listen to it on Youtube, I noticed that there was a controversy within the comments about her shirt and how it was not showing modesty and revealing too much skin.

I then read a comment and it made me question some thoughts.

The comment said something along the line of, "isn't it crazy how satan will use something like this to distract us from the beauty of this song?"

Does this statement seem valid?

What are your opinions?

The music video is listed here (just posting this so you can see an image of the shirt):
 
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I didn't watch the video, but I can tell by the image that her shirt is definitely skimpy. I don't see how a Christian husband or father could consent to his wife or daughter dressing like that. Her shirt appears to be about two sizes too small.

Please don't take my comment as sarcastic or scornful. I appreciate your question. I only wish more women were asking the same question.
 
I can see why her outfit would be considered inappropriate - in Saudi Arabia.

Seriously - some folks lead such sheltered lives that they are shocked by an umbilicus?

Now, the necklace did cause some concern.
 
I can see why her outfit would be considered inappropriate - in Saudi Arabia.

Seriously - some folks lead such sheltered lives that they are shocked by an umbilicus?

Now, the necklace did cause some concern.
That shirt wouldn't have been allowed at my public high school a decade ago (and we had a pretty low bar for modesty). Now we have conservative Christians criticizing anyone wo opposes it as quasi-Islamic in their standard of modesty. That's shocking.

What exactly do you mean by the term 'sheltered?' I can't think how that term applies to me or to someone who merely pushes back at our culture's standard of dress.

Today, women wear bathing suits that are skimpier than their underwear, and they don't scruple to go for a jog in their underwear. I, for one, am tired of being able to know the details of every woman's figure when I enter the supermarket. It will do me no good to know what they're shaped like--all it can do is tempt me to have unchaste thoughts.

The question of where to draw the line in women's apparel is one that every family or Christian woman has to wrestle with today. My position is that a woman should not dress in a way that shows the world what she would look like naked.
 
I didn't watch the video, but from the picture, it's tighter than I would want my wife or daughters to wear.

With that said, I would also be careful not to declare a universal standard of modesty. Modesty is often times more about how one carries herself than what her clothes cover.

Charity is in order.

:2cents:
 
Step one: breathy, sexy Adele sings hit songs; frequent love-affirmations
Step two: CC* singer sings breathy, sexy KLUV songs with God-affirmations
Step three: anxiously check for the newest trend, so next time maybe Christians can get the world to affirm they are cool too.
Step four: repeat with minor variation

*contemporary-christian or copy-cat, take your pick

Unless you intend to go full-burka law, all it takes for the Christian to appear "modest" relative to the vast majority of the society around, is to be plainly less exhibitionist.

Now, I suppose it's not enough, if the Christian is also just a step behind but going in the same direction, as the world sets the agenda and pace. The Christian needs to be going another way entirely.

I don't mean, that the Christian is therefore heading toward the cloister (after all, what could more opposite of exhibitionism?). But we also cannot pick some arbitrary point or range where the cover-up is "just right."

Modesty is a state of mind. Part of it is the intent not to provoke. It shows love for others, rather than demanding that others do all the control of either their lust or their disgust. There is a perversity about people who dress (or undress) to get noticed, and then roar in outrage about particular varieties of notice they receive. Don't they understand how narcissistic that behavior is? I think there's also some perversity with people who are activists about the sins of others.

There's no excuse for a lack of self-control and decorum on the part of someone whose passions are stirred; but there's also no excuse for the unbridled, selfish demand of the right to stir the passions of others. Can I yell "fire!" in a crowded, non-combusting theater, just to enjoy the mayhem that follows? Both sorts of behaviors are provocations, with some sort of personal delight or pleasure as the aim.

As for the video of the singer, I wasn't moved in any direction by it, by her. The whole package seemed crafted for the purpose of manipulation--efforts visual, emotional--and seeing that, I just refused to budge. I'm not saying I'm not susceptible to manipulation; but certain kinds are obvious to me, and I can refuse to go along.

Our concerns about modesty should be more for the well-being of the one who lacks it, than for ourselves who can usually walk/look away from provocation if we will. Naturally, we are concerned about desensitization. We're also concerned about the well-being of those who, weak to provocation, may be stirred up to grosser sins than normal.

People unhappy with the video, or with the girl--they did not have to watch it, perhaps they did not. But then, they're unhappy that it exists. Do they feel... tainted in some way by it? Is this the pattern of thought:
--it's a Christian song/video
--it's an offensive video (to me, to others)
--I'm a Christian
--ergo, I'm now offensive (to me, to others)?​

If the video was of Adele, singing about her boyfriend, and made no reference to God; if the singer wore the same outfit, made the same moves, the same looks, no one would have said anything. Too tame. No Christians would have tried to get other Christians either to see the video, or not see it, due to its religious touch. It would not be a thing.

So, really the whole business comes down to this song/singer/video having a Christian label. Question the premise. Move on. Think about modesty in the small sphere where you can affect it in some meaningful way.
 
That shirt wouldn't have been allowed at my public high school a decade ago

The shirt probably would have passed muster at my high school 40 years ago, but blue jeans on anyone were definitely a violation of the dress code.
 
I confess, my own shirts have been fitting tighter than they should lately. I also -GASP- shortened my beard. Sorry folks. Just avert your eyes.
 
I don't see the point in wearing a shirt like that but that's me. I dislike the song much more. She has a great voice but the song sucks. Of course, I hate most "Christian" music.
 
For those who didn’t actually watch the video, the issue isn’t so much the tightness, but the shortness. She stands up about halfway through the video and her midriff is exposed. Certainly not the most egregiously immodest thing that any of us have seen lately, but perhaps not as modest as Scripture seems to require.
 
Christian music is quite commercialized, and good looks sells even in the Christian market. So although it shouldn't be this way, there is pressure on a musician to look good. In her case, as a young woman, I would guess she feels pressure to look cute. And that outfit did the job; it was cute on her.

I feel for her. I imagine she would rather sing without any pressure to look cute. So given a chance to offer her feedback on that video, the last thing I would do is comment on her looks or her dress. She needs to hear that someone is listening to her song rather than looking at her shirt.
 
Christian music is quite commercialized, and good looks sells even in the Christian market. So although it shouldn't be this way, there is pressure on a musician to look good. In her case, as a young woman, I would guess she feels pressure to look cute. And that outfit did the job; it was cute on her.

I feel for her. I imagine she would rather sing without any pressure to look cute. So given a chance to offer her feedback on that video, the last thing I would do is comment on her looks or her dress. She needs to hear that someone is listening to her song rather than looking at her shirt.

The shirt is a problem. It's not cute; it's inappropriate, immodest. It should be said, in the right way.
 
The outfit didn't bother me. The trite 'me-centered' lyrics on the other hand, did. I counted I/me over fifty times when reading them. No wonder many young women flail so in their faith if this is the 'musical theology' they imbibe. Sad.
 
Whilst scriptures cannot be imposed upon those who are unbelieving, they are the counsellor to Christian women how they should deport themselves. 1Peter3:1-6 is the standard set by the Holy One, and who can resist Him? It’s the inner ornaments that are of great price, not the exposed endowments that are used to draw the eye. I would suggest that the phrase “the putting on of apparel” could include the “the putting off of apparel.” It is an aberration of great concern, that some Christian women are trending with the world, and wearing tops that do not cover modestly that which should be. Substitute a psalm for the song in question
( which I admitt I did not want to hear or look at), then could the same clothes be worn with appropriateness or sung with holiness to the Lord. It is becoming vitally necessary that we men make a covenant with our eyes, else we break the commandment in thought if not in deed.
 
Whilst scriptures cannot be imposed upon those who are unbelieving, they are the counsellor to Christian women how they should deport themselves. 1Peter3:1-6 is the standard set by the Holy One, and who can resist Him? It’s the inner ornaments that are of great price, not the exposed endowments that are used to draw the eye. I would suggest that the phrase “the putting on of apparel” could include the “the putting off of apparel.” It is an aberration of great concern, that some Christian women are trending with the world, and wearing tops that do not cover modestly that which should be. Substitute a psalm for the song in question
( which I admitt I did not want to hear or look at), then could the same clothes be worn with appropriateness or sung with holiness to the Lord. It is becoming vitally necessary that we men make a covenant with our eyes, else we break the commandment in thought if not in deed.

Yes, yes and amen! To you saying that Christian woman are trending with the world
 
Some thoughts:

1) I'm not a fan of modern Christian music.
2) Her living room is cleaner than mine.
3) The shirt is a problem.
 
I would have never even noticed had it not been pointed out to me.

Seriously. I wonder if that is part of the problem.

Separatistic/legalistic/fundy accuses someone of being immodest (which is somewhat of a subjective term) and then the sheep follow suit. I cannot help but think of the Pharisees judging Jesus because of the company he kept. Something about choking on gnats and swallowing camels!

Please know that I am not referring to any of the comments on this board, but rather the reactions on Youtube.
 
Step one: breathy, sexy Adele sings hit songs; frequent love-affirmations
Step two: CC* singer sings breathy, sexy KLUV songs with God-affirmations
Step three: anxiously check for the newest trend, so next time maybe Christians can get the world to affirm they are cool too.
Step four: repeat with minor variation

*contemporary-christian or copy-cat, take your pick

YES! This comment wins the internet.
 
Our approach to modesty should be informed by a few principles:

1. Not judging another's servant. Ultimately, we should all admit there is a spectrum on clothing being appropriate or not. We are called to put far more thought into our own holiness than others. Not that "public Christians" are immune to criticism but we should be just be careful about blowing minor scruples out of proportion.
2. Dressing with the well-being of others in mind. Men are generally tempted to lust, and women to envy, just based on experience. When choosing our clothes we should consider the degree we to which we are seeking to be listed after or envied. We also should keep in mind that if our clothing is designed to be attention-seeking it probably comes from an attitude that is not focused on good works or edifying others. Speaking personally, a bit of mid riff has never tempted me to lust compared to other types of clothing but this is still subjective. There is no need to be absolutely exacting it. We do have a responsibility to guard our thoughts and gazes after all. Just don't seek to draw unholy attention or be completely oblivious to the temptation of others.
3. Apply the brother/sister/father/mother test. If your sister wore it, would you feel a little weirded out about it?
 
AnnaBanana: I think it's the yellow. It must be distracting. Yellow often is.

Regarding the comment you refer to: The super-slim, non-overly buxom young lady has a crew-neck T-shirt on. No shoulders. No cleavage. No tight clothes outlining her shape. I'm surprised why anyone would need to voice a negative opinion about it. It's wise to resist having a critical opinion in order to make ourselves feel superior -- whether in behavior or knowledge.

Modesty is a posture of the heart, not a tally of how much skin is showing.
 
It's wise to resist having a critical opinion in order to make ourselves feel superior -- whether in behavior or knowledge.
Ma'am,
I wonder how you know the thoughts and intentions of the hearts of others. Could it be that in accusing others of harboring ill motives and passing unwarranted judgment, that you've committed the very error that you accuse others of?
 
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Ma'am,
I wonder how you know the thoughts and intentions of the hearts of others. Could it be that in accusing others of harboring ill motives and passing unwarranted judgment, that you've committed the very error that you accuse others of?

I'm sorry if I misrepresented myself! Please know I was not intending to accuse anyone of ill motives nor assuming thoughts or intentions! In fact, I started with a joke just to set my tone. Please allow me to rephrase:

Exclusively addressing the comment on the OP regarding Satan: The young woman's clothing was not anything that is customarily objected to from Christians, so I'm surprised anyone would voice a negative opinion about it. I find it wise to resist a critical opinion that makes myself feel like my behavior or my knowledge is superior, and I would recommend that attitude to others.

I'd posit that biblical modesty is a posture of the heart, not a tally of how much skin is showing.

P.S. Her shirt is definitely not what I'd consider tight by conventional standards. It's merely a junior cut.
 
TylerRay, just in reading your comments above, though, I might see the issue.
From the frozen image on the post it does look like her shirt is tight. When one watches the video it can be seen that it is, in fact, not tight. That might be the problem in perception here.
 
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