Could a Sinless Adam or Man Die?

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ChristopherPaul

Puritan Board Senior
Hypothetically, if Jesus lived incarnate as the second Adam, but never suffered for our sins, nor atoned for them by willingly laying down His life (and of course, God the Father never obligating Him to do so), then would He have ever died or been able to be killed? Additionally would He continue to age to the end of death?

Is not death the result of sin?

Jesus willingly took upon Himself our sins and thus willingly died a sinners death. For Him to not take upon Himself our sins, would He be able to die anyway having a sinless nature?

Christ continued to grow and become strong to the age of thirty, which theoretically could have been the age of created Adam and thus the peak age of immortal man and thus Jesus never aged past thirty even though He was on earth for 33 years (again this is completely surmised and assumes we will all be thirty when we are in our glorified state). The fact that sinless Christ aged is obvious, but would He have aged to the point of death?

I am trying to understand original sin by comparing a man with a sinFUL nature to a man with a sinLESS nature. Infants die even though they were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad. Is this due to their sinful nature? Is death proof that sin was present? Is all death the result of sin? Do animals have a sinful nature? Are animals sinless? Do animals groan and suffer the pains of childbirth until the time of redemption?

*goes back to contemplating his navel*

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by ChristopherPaul]
 

Dan....

Puritan Board Sophomore
Christopher,

I see a possible misunderstansing of the Passive Obedience of Christ in your hypothetical. The passive obedience of Christ (His humiliation; His suffering for our sins) began not at the Cross, but at conception. He was born into the age according to the flesh; He brought it to an end and brought in the age to come at His resurrection. He was without sin, but was bearing our sins.


Yes, death is the wages of sin (Romans 6:23).

We died in Adam. 1 Cor 15:21,22.

The unborn die without actual sin because Adam's sin is their sin.

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by Dan....]
 

ChristopherPaul

Puritan Board Senior
Originally posted by Dan....
Christopher,

I see a possible misunderstansing of the Passive Obedience of Christ in your hypothetical. The passive obedience of Christ (His humiliation; His suffering for our sins) began not at the Cross, but at conception. He was born into the age according to the flesh; He brought it to an end and brought in the age to come at His resurrection. He was without sin, but was bearing our sins.


Yes, death is the wages of sin (Romans 6:23).

We died in Adam. 1 Cor 15:21,22.

The unborn die without actual sin because Adam's sin is their sin.

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by Dan....]

Dan,

This does not answer my question. If thinking of Christ not being Christ in hypothetical manner causes you problems, then answer the question(s) using a hypothetical sinless man.

Unlike man, Christ was born sinless and without a sinful nature. Yet like man, He died due to sin.
 

Dan....

Puritan Board Sophomore
Is the hypothetical man attached to the Federal headship of Adam?

If so, then he will die, regardless of whether or not he had actual sin, because Adam's sin is imputed to him.

If the hypothetical man is not attached to the Federal Headship of Adam, and if the hypothetical man is not appointed to suffer for the sins of another (as Jesus Christ), then the hypothetical man would not die. (Of course, hypothetically, because all men are attached to a Federal head, either to the first or to the last Adam). This would be the same situation as Adam, had he, hypothetically, not sinned (i.e., Adam would not have died).

I hope that helps.



[Edited on 3-21-2006 by Dan....]
 

Civbert

Puritan Board Junior
This is my understanding.

The penalty of death is not contingent on a man personally committing a sin, men die because Adam sinned and God decreed that all men will therefor suffer death. Even if one could lead a perfect life without sin, the death that comes to him is dues to his being a descendant of Adam. A man's sinful nature is also inherited from Adam, as well. But death is not contingent on sinning.

I think that's also what Dan was saying. The sin of Adam is imputed to us. So even if we could avoid a sinful nature, we'd still have the penalty of death.
 

larryjf

Puritan Board Senior
Could the point you are trying to question be asked thusly:
"If Adam never sinned would he have died?"

Since the fall was ordained by God, wouldn't that be a fallacious argument? The structure of the argument just doesn't seem sound. Wouldn't it be similar to ask, "If God is truly free can He sin?"

Perhaps if Adam never sinned he wouldn't die "naturally." Maybe he would be murdered by someone who was a sinner.
;)

[Edited on 3-24-2006 by larryjf]

[Edited on 3-24-2006 by larryjf]
 
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