Covenant of Redemption

Based on your own view of covenant theology, how many distinct covenants do you see in scripture?


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Sharing for information purposes only. This might be a helpful (1 hr. ) intro video to the topic at hand. It was once shared with me by a fellow PBer:detective:


I also found the video very edifying. Though I do not conclude the same way.

Thanks for sharing that. Dr. Myers and I worship in the same congregation. He is a brilliant scholar and one of the most humble men you could meet.
 
Thanks for sharing that. Dr. Myers and I worship in the same congregation. He is a brilliant scholar and one of the most humble men you could meet.
Indeed. I love hearing someone lay out two different orthodox positions with respect and fairness to both sides, even while sharing how he himself concludes.:detective:
 
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Indeed. I love hearing someone lay out two different orthodox positions with respect and fairness to both sides, even while sharing how he himself concludes.:detective:

I have yet to watch it and probably won't have time to get to it this weekend. What is his conclusion, and what about it do you disagree?
 
I have yet to watch it and probably won't have time to get to it in the foreseeable future. What is his conclusion, and what about it do you disagree?
Assuming I hear him rightly, he lands with Boston for the Bi-Covenantal view.

However, I think he also feels Tri-Covenantalism gained the majority early on because Scottish Federalism was still being developed with more clarity. Hence the Tri-Covenantal view is usually referred to as “Scottish Federalism”.

He calls the Bi-covenantal view (again think Boston) to be within Scottish covenant theology but describes it as “Evangelical Federalism”. He also said that O. Palmer Robertson held to a version of Bi-Covenantalism that was not in line with the form of Bi-Covenantalism Boston and other 18th century reformers argued for.

I am not scholarly enough to lay out my disagreement with a Professor of his caliber.:graduate: I will just say that when I hear/read both positions explained along with the scriptures, the Tri-Covenantal view makes better sense to me.:detective:
 
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Assuming I hear him rightly, he lands with Boston for the Bi-Covenantal view.

However, I think he also feels Tri-Covenantalism gained the majority early on because Scottish Federalism was still being developed with more clarity. Hence the Tri-Covenantal view is usually referred to as “Scottish Federalism”.

He calls the Bi-covenantal view (again think Boston) to be within Scottish covenant theology but describes it as “Evangelical Federalism”. He also said that O’ Palmer Robertson held to a version of Bi-Covenantalism that was not in line with the form of Bi-Covenantalism Boston and other 18th century reformers argued for.

I am not scholarly enough to lay out my disagreement with a Professor of his caliber.:graduate: I will just say that when I hear/read both positions explained along with the scriptures, the Tri-Covenantal view makes better sense to me.:detective:

I stand corrected, I was so sure that Robertson held to the three covenant view. Now I've got to go through my library to figure out who I had him confused with.
 
I came into this thread so certain that the three model was correct, I voted that way in the poll. After reading through the comments my position has gone a full 180. I no longer consider the covenant of Redemption to be a covenant, although I do agree with one comment made here about the need to stress the fact that God has chosen His elect from before the foundation of the world. I'm grateful for the Puritan Board for helping me to refine my theological beliefs. Back in my cage stage days I never would've been able to admit when I was wrong, but being in fellowship with so many wiser folks has a way of removing the cage.
 
What makes you think I am not? :p
I was able to finish up reading the Vos essay today. I found the essay very helpful and most edifying, even though I prefer doing longer reads on actual paper:book2:. I would like to share two quotes below that I found most encouraging. I still consider my self relatively new to the entire concept of Covenant Theology ( 3 years in). Vos did a incredible job of reminding me that I often underestimate the system in seeing how it truly impacts all areas of our faith. Stephen...thank you for sharing it.

From Vos (https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/vos_covenant.html):

According to the Lutheran, the Holy Spirit first generates faith in the sinner who temporarily still remains outside of union with Christ; then justification follows faith and only then, in turn, does the mystical union with the Mediator take place. Everything depends on this justification, which is losable, so that the believer only gets to see a little of the glory of grace and lives for the day, so to speak. The covenantal outlook is the reverse. One is first united to Christ, the Mediator of the covenant, by a mystical union, which finds its conscious recognition in faith. By this union with Christ all that is in Christ is simultaneously given. Faith embraces all this too; it not only grasps the instantaneous justification, but lays hold of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King, as his rich and full Messiah. The deepest reason for this difference in view is none other than the fact that the reception of the full glory of the work of God's grace in the consciousness of faith is the most important thing to the Reformed believer. Therefore faith may not be confined within the limited circle of one piece of the truth and its gaze fixed on that all the time; it must have in view, freely and broadly, the whole plan of salvation. The Lutheran lives as a child who enjoys his father's smile for the moment; the Reformed believer lives as a man, in whose consciousness the eternal glory of God throws its radiance.

That faith must also live in the church in regard to its continuation in the generations to follow. It must not be like the desert, which does not respond when blessings come upon it; rather, it must be as a watered garden, whose flowers seek the face of the sun and whose leaves unfold to catch the drops of God's rain of grace. It is evident how strongly the idea of the covenant makes itself felt here, and how it elevates itself above all idolatrous worship of the sacraments.

I hope others will find the quotes edifying on this most pleasant Lord's Day.

P.S. Stephen, have you now embraced the biblical validity of infant baptism? Your profile still shows you subscribing to the London Baptist confession. All cats aside, show yourself!:detective:
 
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On the subject of Jonathan Edwards, I recall when reading his A History of the Work of Redemption thinking that he had essentially defined the CoR and the CoG as the same thing.

So, far this post is the only one on my blog on this topic from that book, but it does not fully establish the case that I am making. I will have to dig out my hard copy of the book and check my notes (the problem with having multiple rows of books on shelves is that you rarely have anything to hand).
 
On the subject of Jonathan Edwards, I recall when reading his A History of the Work of Redemption thinking that he had essentially defined the CoR and the CoG as the same thing.
Did you see my earlier post and link on this forum?
Carl Bogue's book on Jonathan Edward's covenant theology is very helpful on the relationship between the covenant of grace and the covenant of redemption. Here is a helpful summary of his thesis
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/jonathan-edwards-on-the-covenant-of-grace/
 
Vos did a incredible job of reminding me that I often underestimate the system in seeing how it truly impacts all areas of our faith.
Glad you enjoyed it brother. Vos is great. You might like to compare it with that Bogue link I gave on Edwards covenant theology.
Stephen, have you now embraced the biblical validity of infant baptism? Your profile still shows you subscribing to the London Baptist confession.
I am still thinking through the issue. It is a struggle as there are a number of variables to the discussion. What is interesting though is that ch 7 of the 1689 Baptist clearly articulates the three covenant model.
All cats aside
My cat is sitting on my lap as I type this :)
 
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