Dealing with the Holier than thou crowd

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Reformingstudent

Puritan Board Junior
This is funny, well almost,
In my ethics class I'm in there with some Christians like my father in-law, who doesn't mind standing up for the gospel and giving a biblical perspective on issues like abortion, suicide and the like. I have done that myself and have had the opportunity to share the Gospel in class. Praise God. Our instructor is a believer himself although he is a Methodist, he gives us freedom to speak with freedom.
There is this one guy however who is very "look at me, I'm a Christian" type who is too much into his own goodness if you know what I mean. Not sure, but I think he maybe pentacostal. Any way today the topic of homosexuality came up in class and right away he pops up giving us the "biblical" answer of there being a, his words, "homosexual" spirit being passed on from generation to generation. In his view there are two great but equal powers in the universe, God and Satan, God is for us and Satan being against us, etc, etc.
Not reaaly sure what to make of this all, but today after hearing his know it all answers and the way he likes to come across as a Christian for all to admire and praise, I sort of just wished we could have discussion in class without bringing up theology. I know what I believe and why, but when I see those who try to act religious for the sake of religion, it just makes me want to puke. This guy is one of those who likes to be thought of as being very righteous, almost like my father in-law who is himself an Arminian, but I have respect for my father in-law and can tolerate him a lot better now than what I use to.
What do you do when you see someone who likes to model righteousness for other people? does it ever get under your skin when you see people who deny their own sinfulness and like to act pious for those who may not understand and thinkl that they are It, so to speak.

Any way, thanks for letting me share.


God bless




Tom
 
I know what you mean. They are like the Scribes and Pharisees, practicing religion before men, because deep down, thats who their theology serves. Man. They seek to be approved by their fellowman thinking by doing so, they are appeasing God.

They drive me nuts.
 
What a shame! People like this do more harm than good for the Gospel. For one thing, they portray to the watching world that "being a Christian" is about rules, ethics, and morals. They hold up their own righteousness for all to see and tell others, not in so many words, "Hey, look at me! If YOU want to be a Christian, you'll have to be just like me and perform at my level. I model the standard that God requires; stop being like YOU and be like ME so you can earn salvation."

If I were you, whenever I got the chance and the situation warranted it, I'd focus on man's depravity (particularly your own) and give people "the other side" of the Christian life and what its really all about. Let them know that being a Christian is about what Christ did for you, that you were powerless to do for yourself. (As are they)

My :wr50:
 
Last night I was looking at a KJV Bible my brother had years ago, it's the Open Bible. After following the outline about "The Abundant Life" I came to the part which explains that there are 4 (count 'em!) types of Christians, babes(carnal) children, young men, and fathers. After describing all the negative traits children at various ages can possess, and comparing types of Christians to them, it went on to ask whoever was reading to evaluate him/herself to see which stratum he/she was on!

I think this is the sort of thing Pentecostals are taught. Consider this poor fellow a victim of his own depravity and dreadful catechesis.
 
Just make sure your motives are right. Is it his self-righteousness that you are repulsed by? Or his abundant grace to live righteously? Sometimes, we envy those who have more grace than us, because we are made aware of our own sins and faults by their righteous conduct. I'm not saying that this is the case for the above example. Just be careful that we are not being self-righteous in our own judgments of other's piety.
 
[quote:8f24f9bb37][i:8f24f9bb37]Originally posted by alwaysreforming[/i:8f24f9bb37]
What a shame! People like this do more harm than good for the Gospel. For one thing, they portray to the watching world that "being a Christian" is about rules, ethics, and morals. They hold up their own righteousness for all to see and tell others, not in so many words, "Hey, look at me! If YOU want to be a Christian, you'll have to be just like me and perform at my level. I model the standard that God requires; stop being like YOU and be like ME so you can earn salvation."

If I were you, whenever I got the chance and the situation warranted it, I'd focus on man's depravity (particularly your own) and give people "the other side" of the Christian life and what its really all about. Let them know that being a Christian is about what Christ did for you, that you were powerless to do for yourself. (As are they)

My :wr50: [/quote:8f24f9bb37]


I did that last week when I did my speech on lying, here's a little of what I said:

...What does all this mean? Simply this: some lie a lot, some don't. Those who don't lie as much as say a Bill Clinton should not throw stones or act as if they are not without sin. How many murders must one commit before he is labeled a murderer? How many times must one steal before he counted as a thief? Same as lying. How many lies must one tell to be considered a liar? In God's view, just breaking one of the ten Commandments is enough to send you to Hell forever. Why? Because His standards are higher than ours. He is Holy and can't tolerate sin in any way shape or fashion. We may compare our selves with others and maybe look better than our neighbor who may be a drug addict, drunkard, liar, thief, etc, etc. but compared to God, all of us fall way short of His perfect standard. As the Bible says in Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
No one likes to be called a liar, but if you take the Word of God as your only means of objectivity, than you have only two choices. Either the Bible is true and if it is then you're not as good or righteous as you want to believe you are, or two, you're the exception to the rule and you are perfect and the Bible you trust in is wrong.
I myself found out a long time ago that the Bible is true in all it says and that I had no excuse and could not compare myself with other men. Although I was not a murderer per say, I was guilty of murder in my heart. Same goes for lying. I found that I was a liar and worse yet, I loved it. God had shown me that lying comes straight from the heart. We can't help lying. It runs too deep. Now before any here would judge me and condemn me, just remember this, Christ did not die for imaginary sins. He died for sinners who knew their need and saw themselves as sinners. And as such He welcomed them into His Kingdom while those who thought that they were too good to need a dying Savior were not allowed entrance into His Kingdom. In order to join A.A. you must first admit that you are an alcoholic-- same way in Christ's Kingdom. You must first see yourself as an unworthy sinner and admit that you are in need of saving before Christ will allow you into His Kingdom.
The only cure for lying is to go to the One whom many have called Truth incarnate. The One whom many have found to be worthy of our praise and worship as well as our admiration. He is the one that you can be honest with without fear that he will turn you away. He knows you better than your self and wants you to go to Him with your problems whether it is a problem with lying, stealing, cheating or whatever. He alone can Save and deliver you from the bondage of sin.



Tom Mitchell

Some really liked what I said and I recieved a good grade, but to those who are into their own works, I think it was over their heads. I pray maybe they got some good out of it.
At least ways though, I had a good witness and I think God may have been pleased.



Blessings.
 
[quote:dabae0ad17][i:dabae0ad17]Originally posted by turmeric[/i:dabae0ad17]
Last night I was looking at a KJV Bible my brother had years ago, it's the Open Bible. After following the outline about "The Abundant Life" I came to the part which explains that there are 4 (count 'em!) types of Christians, babes(carnal) children, young men, and fathers. After describing all the negative traits children at various ages can possess, and comparing types of Christians to them, it went on to ask whoever was reading to evaluate him/herself to see which stratum he/she was on!

I think this is the sort of thing Pentecostals are taught. Consider this poor fellow a victim of his own depravity and dreadful catechesis. [/quote:dabae0ad17]


That's an idea I had never thought of before. thanks. ;)




Blessings.



Tom
 
[quote:388f856bab][i:388f856bab]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:388f856bab]
Just make sure your motives are right. Is it his self-righteousness that you are repulsed by? Or his abundant grace to live righteously? Sometimes, we envy those who have more grace than us, because we are made aware of our own sins and faults by their righteous conduct. I'm not saying that this is the case for the above example. Just be careful that we are not being self-righteous in our own judgments of other's piety. [/quote:388f856bab]

Although it's not my place to judge, I get the idea that he likes to be thought of as very religious. I have seen it before and know Phariseeism when I see it. I think he is sincere though, but also very shallow. Lot like that around here where I live.. Most people here have not been exposed to the gospel of free, undeserved grace. I don't hate him or wish him ill and hope that one day I may get the chance to witness to him. Not to put him down or make him feel bad, but to share the truth with him.



Peace.



Tom
 
[quote:e6b231fb2b][i:e6b231fb2b]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:e6b231fb2b]
Just make sure your motives are right. Is it his self-righteousness that you are repulsed by? Or his abundant grace to live righteously? Sometimes, we envy those who have more grace than us, because we are made aware of our own sins and faults by their righteous conduct. I'm not saying that this is the case for the above example. Just be careful that we are not being self-righteous in our own judgments of other's piety. [/quote:e6b231fb2b]


Here's a thought. Do those who have abundant grace to live righteously like to show off to others how good, pure, clean they are?
Most of the truly righteous people I have ever known are also some of the least prideful and most humble people you can think of. They don't call attention to themselves, but point to Christ.

just my :wr50:


Blessings


Tom
 
[quote:d00ee48c45]What do you do when you see someone who likes to model righteousness for other people?[/quote:d00ee48c45]

Is this not what we are all supposed to be doing???

Salt and Light. A City on a Hill.

"Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matt 5:16

Or perhaps that is not the way you intended to word the question?

Let us make very sure that we are not attempting to pluck a speck out of our brothers eye all the while crushing his head in with the telephone pole sticking out of ours......no one likes a self righteous person, but as puritansailor noted, and as I find to be very true for myself, the things I react to the most in other people are usually the things that I am most guilty of myself.

Phillip
 
[quote:951ce89012][i:951ce89012]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:951ce89012]
[quote:951ce89012]What do you do when you see someone who likes to model righteousness for other people?[/quote:951ce89012]

Is this not what we are all supposed to be doing???

Salt and Light. A City on a Hill.

"Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matt 5:16

Or perhaps that is not the way you intended to word the question?

Let us make very sure that we are not attempting to pluck a speck out of our brothers eye all the while crushing his head in with the telephone pole sticking out of ours......no one likes a self righteous person, but as puritansailor noted, and as I find to be very true for myself, the things I react to the most in other people are usually the things that I am most guilty of myself.

Phillip [/quote:951ce89012]



No Philip,
I didn't mean to "model Righteousness" in a good way like Christ meant for us to do, but in the negative way like the pharisees did. They pointed to themselves not toward God who is the only one that is good. Not that we are not called to be good, righteous and pure we are, but there is a big difference between being good and trying to show others how good you are in your self.
And can you tell me than how can a person who doesn't even believe the truth of the Gospel and justification by faith alone in Christ alone be a true model of righteousness for others when he has no idea of his own sinfulness?
The man in question probably doesn't mean any harm and I have nothing personal against him, but the way he likes to show off to others and how those in my class are sometimes repelled by his self-righteous attitude, he isn't helping bring many into the Kingdom.

Blessings.

&

Peace








Tom
 
[quote:9e4d9bfa1a][i:9e4d9bfa1a]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:9e4d9bfa1a]
Just make sure your motives are right. Is it his self-righteousness that you are repulsed by? Or his abundant grace to live righteously? Sometimes, we envy those who have more grace than us, because we are made aware of our own sins and faults by their righteous conduct. I'm not saying that this is the case for the above example. Just be careful that we are not being self-righteous in our own judgments of other's piety. [/quote:9e4d9bfa1a]

Good point and a timely reminder, Patrick. I know of another local pastor who 'rubs me the wrong way' in this regard, and I have wondered if perhaps it was due to my slow progress in sanctification, and envy on my part. Our hearts are just what Scripture declares them to be....deceitfully wicked...who can know them? We all need to exercise charity in judgment, leaving motives of the heart to Him who sees all.

Grace,
Dwayne
 
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