Definition of Evil?
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Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Evil is nothing compared to God.
But it is the opposite of the character, attributes, and holiness of God.
blade
But it is the opposite of the character, attributes, and holiness of God.
blade
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
Evil = sin
WSC:
Q14: What is sin?
A14: Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.
WSC:
Q14: What is sin?
A14: Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Thats a god answer too
blade
blade
Wow, thanks for your responses, I wasn't expecting those, but they are all really good. in summation, would you all tend to hold to Augustine's view that evil is the abscence of good?
puritansailor, you showed that evil=sin and that sin is anything against God's law. What about case examples like 2 Samuel 2:25 where "For the Lord desired to put them to death". Would this not fall under God breaking His own rule? Would you say God can do that as an act of judgment upon the two sons, and that this in no way contradicts what God commanded us to do, "Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"? If not, than what does that command mean to "love our enemy"? Does God call us to a law that He Himself is not subject to follow? Or would you draw a distinction between "common love/grace" and "special love/grace"?
thanks,
by grace alone,
borg
puritansailor, you showed that evil=sin and that sin is anything against God's law. What about case examples like 2 Samuel 2:25 where "For the Lord desired to put them to death". Would this not fall under God breaking His own rule? Would you say God can do that as an act of judgment upon the two sons, and that this in no way contradicts what God commanded us to do, "Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"? If not, than what does that command mean to "love our enemy"? Does God call us to a law that He Himself is not subject to follow? Or would you draw a distinction between "common love/grace" and "special love/grace"?
thanks,
by grace alone,
borg
kceaster
Puritan Board Junior
Sin is obviously a perversion of obedience. Evil, therefore, is a perversion of good. It does not exist by itself as an entity. Evil is like a hammer. It is not useful unless it is picked up.
Evil, then, comes from us. We are the ones that give it motion, not the devil, nor his demons. They may tempt and try, but they are not the ones from whence it comes. As James tells us, our desire is what makes it happen.
So the goodness and grace of God emanates from Him, it is tangible thing, it is a created order. But man introduced evil by acting contrary to the created order and thereby, perverting the good.
In Christ,
KC
Evil, then, comes from us. We are the ones that give it motion, not the devil, nor his demons. They may tempt and try, but they are not the ones from whence it comes. As James tells us, our desire is what makes it happen.
So the goodness and grace of God emanates from Him, it is tangible thing, it is a created order. But man introduced evil by acting contrary to the created order and thereby, perverting the good.
In Christ,
KC
The Hebrew word from the OT that we translate as "evil" means literally "that which causes harm."
Ever heard the phrase "too much of a good thing"? Even "good things", when abused, can cause harm.
So evil is not all about good and bad. Ultimately evil is anything that hurts us!
Phillip
[Edited on 4-19-04 by pastorway]
Ever heard the phrase "too much of a good thing"? Even "good things", when abused, can cause harm.
So evil is not all about good and bad. Ultimately evil is anything that hurts us!
Phillip
[Edited on 4-19-04 by pastorway]
kceaster
Puritan Board Junior
Pastor Way....
[quote:99a092cd21][i:99a092cd21]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:99a092cd21]
The Hebrew word from the OT that we translate as "evil" means literally "that which causes harm."
Ever heard the phrase "too much of a good thing"? Even "good things", when abused, can cause harm.
So evil is not all about good and bad. Ultimately evil is anything that hurts us!
Phillip[/quote:99a092cd21]
I think we're saying the same thing, don't you? If you speak of something in God's created order that has a specific use, if it is abused, as you have said, isn't that a peversion of good? Perverting the good will always bring harm, will it not?
And what I mean when I say "good", I am not talking about man's view or a moralistic view. I mean that what God created He called good. What man misuses in all of God's creation does not make the thing evil, but the evil which comes from the heart's desire to sin makes the misuse of the good, evil.
Am I making sense?
In Christ,
KC
[quote:99a092cd21][i:99a092cd21]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:99a092cd21]
The Hebrew word from the OT that we translate as "evil" means literally "that which causes harm."
Ever heard the phrase "too much of a good thing"? Even "good things", when abused, can cause harm.
So evil is not all about good and bad. Ultimately evil is anything that hurts us!
Phillip[/quote:99a092cd21]
I think we're saying the same thing, don't you? If you speak of something in God's created order that has a specific use, if it is abused, as you have said, isn't that a peversion of good? Perverting the good will always bring harm, will it not?
And what I mean when I say "good", I am not talking about man's view or a moralistic view. I mean that what God created He called good. What man misuses in all of God's creation does not make the thing evil, but the evil which comes from the heart's desire to sin makes the misuse of the good, evil.
Am I making sense?
In Christ,
KC
If evil is that which hurts us, in the mind of a Refomred person, do we experience evil? If everything is ordained and caused for our own good, and everything that happens edifys us and cleanses us as gold through fire; do Christians ever experience evil? Do we ever do evil? How do we discern what is hurting us and what is not?
If evil is a breaking of God's law, what of the times when God seems to break His own laws. I mentioned something about this in a previous post.
Grace and Peace,
Michael
If evil is a breaking of God's law, what of the times when God seems to break His own laws. I mentioned something about this in a previous post.
Grace and Peace,
Michael
We agree, KC.
Now for Coram....
[quote:9b27d5c85d]If evil is that which hurts us, in the mind of a Refomred person, do we experience evil? If everything is ordained and caused for our own good, and everything that happens edifys us and cleanses us as gold through fire; do Christians ever experience evil? Do we ever do evil? How do we discern what is hurting us and what is not? [/quote:9b27d5c85d]
God does not CAUSE all things for our good. He works all things for our good. That means even when we DO evil, when we sin, when we abuse His gifts given to us, He still works that for our good.
And yes we "do evil" often. The wages of sin is death, all sin, every sin. Even though we are saved, there is still a price to pay in this mortal life for sin. We reap what we sow. We are not exempt from being harmed or harming ourselves.
Phillip
Now for Coram....
[quote:9b27d5c85d]If evil is that which hurts us, in the mind of a Refomred person, do we experience evil? If everything is ordained and caused for our own good, and everything that happens edifys us and cleanses us as gold through fire; do Christians ever experience evil? Do we ever do evil? How do we discern what is hurting us and what is not? [/quote:9b27d5c85d]
God does not CAUSE all things for our good. He works all things for our good. That means even when we DO evil, when we sin, when we abuse His gifts given to us, He still works that for our good.
And yes we "do evil" often. The wages of sin is death, all sin, every sin. Even though we are saved, there is still a price to pay in this mortal life for sin. We reap what we sow. We are not exempt from being harmed or harming ourselves.
Phillip
pastorway, thanks that was kind of dumb of me to ask now that i think about it. but would you say that the Christian ever experiences and external evil? Yes we do evil and act evil, but do we ever experience it? If someone were to come up to me and stick a knife in my leg, would that be experiencing evil? Or, to use a more 'grotesque' idea, if someone were to run over my child with their car, have i experienced evil? or is God's will working in such a way, that out of this persons particular evil, He will spin good and therefore can i even consider it evil? Does this make sense?
blessings,
michael
blessings,
michael
God working it for good does not make it non-evil. Evil is evil and always will be. The wonder of it is that God in His sovereignty is ABLE to work evil for a good result.
Of course, the "good" in Rom 8:28 is our glorification, where ultimately we are perfect and holy, like Christ, conformed to His image.
But even the best good, Jesus' death on the cross, was wrought by evil men with evil intent. Peter said that the leaders in Israel "murdered" Jesus. Murder is evil, but this evil was used for good in that through it atonement was made for our sin.
Phillip
Of course, the "good" in Rom 8:28 is our glorification, where ultimately we are perfect and holy, like Christ, conformed to His image.
But even the best good, Jesus' death on the cross, was wrought by evil men with evil intent. Peter said that the leaders in Israel "murdered" Jesus. Murder is evil, but this evil was used for good in that through it atonement was made for our sin.
Phillip
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:6fb475e33f][i:6fb475e33f]Originally posted by Coram_Deo[/i:6fb475e33f]
puritansailor, you showed that evil=sin and that sin is anything against God's law. What about case examples like 2 Samuel 2:25 where "For the Lord desired to put them to death". Would this not fall under God breaking His own rule? Would you say God can do that as an act of judgment upon the two sons, and that this in no way contradicts what God commanded us to do, "Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"? If not, than what does that command mean to "love our enemy"? Does God call us to a law that He Himself is not subject to follow? Or would you draw a distinction between "common love/grace" and "special love/grace"?
[/quote:6fb475e33f]
God never breaks His law. When He put's one to death, it is a death the person has merited. God is the Judge of all. Who are we to decide when He shall deal out his justice? He may do so whenever He pleases. Since all are guilty, there is no grounds for complaint or objection. God does love His enemies in that he is kind and longsuffering towards them. He is never returns evil for evil. It's contrary to His nature to do so. He also loves His enemies in saving many of them. But love does not contradict justice. There are already several threads on the common vs. special grace. I'll defer you to those.
puritansailor, you showed that evil=sin and that sin is anything against God's law. What about case examples like 2 Samuel 2:25 where "For the Lord desired to put them to death". Would this not fall under God breaking His own rule? Would you say God can do that as an act of judgment upon the two sons, and that this in no way contradicts what God commanded us to do, "Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"? If not, than what does that command mean to "love our enemy"? Does God call us to a law that He Himself is not subject to follow? Or would you draw a distinction between "common love/grace" and "special love/grace"?
[/quote:6fb475e33f]
God never breaks His law. When He put's one to death, it is a death the person has merited. God is the Judge of all. Who are we to decide when He shall deal out his justice? He may do so whenever He pleases. Since all are guilty, there is no grounds for complaint or objection. God does love His enemies in that he is kind and longsuffering towards them. He is never returns evil for evil. It's contrary to His nature to do so. He also loves His enemies in saving many of them. But love does not contradict justice. There are already several threads on the common vs. special grace. I'll defer you to those.
neo-puritan
Inactive User
I wonder why nobody has mentioned pride when discussing evil? Wasn't that the reason why the devil fell and sin entred the world?
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